9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[ASUADPi]

I'm thrilled that this teenagers have been charged!

It is high time that people (parents, administrators, teachers, other students) realize that bullying is a problem! I truly hope that the harshest form of punishment that they can get is handed down to them!

My high school was very big on protecting students from bullies and this was back when anti-bullying laws weren't in effect. I remember an instance when I was a sophomore (so like the 94-94 school year). I took the bus home and my bully and her 3 cronies got off the bus with me and started in on me (the reason, I supposedly was "bashing" the orchestra, to which the bully was a part of, lame I know). Thankfully a friend stayed with me while they harassed me and she eventually got them to leave. As soon as I got home I called my mom, who immediately called the principal. I was pulled into his office the next day (and my principal was like this 6'4" tall man who weighed over 200 pounds, big guy). He made me tell him who the girls were. I did and he suspended them all for like 2-3 days. He flat out told me that until the moment I walked through my front door after school that I was the schools responsibility.

I was thrilled that someone FINALLY had done something to my bully because I had been putting up with her since elementary school. God knows my parents tried their damndest to get her in trouble, but back in the era I grew up, I was the one blamed for the bullying. It was like "well your daughter acts this way" "your daughter dresses this way" "your daughter says this stuff", the blame NEVER went on the bully. Mainly because, as like today, the bullies tended to be the popular kids of the school, who teachers adored and they would target the kids that weren't popular and that the teachers really didn't like.

[deepimpact2]

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Where does the rape come in? The senior guy she dated? Unless he was in cahoots with the bitch squad, I don't think he should be charged.

I live in MA and to my knowledge the name of her former boyfriend hasn't been given, so I'm not sure that either of the young men charged is him. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if these boys aided the "mean girls" in some sort of set up scheme, say at a party with alcohol or something similar. Chances are however, the statutory rape charges are not going to stick/stand during the prosecution.

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

I too am wondering (not blaming however) why the parents did not seek to pull her out of school. CPS could drag me to jail first, but I would not submit my (future) child to that kind of insult. Even my aunt transferred custody of my cousin to my mother to get her out of her local school system which is prone to in school violence and danger.

It's not necessarily that easy in MA with zoning and districting laws, not to mention how far South Hadley might be from the next town's high school. The most direct way would involve finding a new home, selling your existing one, etc. etc. something most parents I know would do for their children, but its also not an overnight solution. Compounded with them not being from here, I can see how pulling her out of school was not an immediate decision of the family.

Originally Posted by BabyPiNK_FL

And if the school system keeps this up, I feel horrible for the sister. Just the other day in my area a young man who also found his brother who hanged himself was taunted about it by a complete stranger and he beat her almost to death. What will the sister's like be like if this is allowed to continue?

I too am concerned about the younger sister, not only for having to deal with her sisters death, but actually being the person to have found her, and then how she will in turn deal with the situation.

Originally Posted by epchick

So I guess I should being by saying i'm specifically talking about where I am, obviously the law might be different where this girl is at.

With that said, assuming this guy is no older than 18, it wouldn't be considered statutory rape. For it to be considered statutory, the age difference has to be over 3 years. Their age difference isn't enough to consider it statutory.

I think because she was under 15 and they over 16, in MA that is considered statutory, but don't quote me. I honestly don't think however, those charges will ultimately stick.

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

While times are new, and harassment and bullying come from all angles with the internet, facebook, etc., I also feel like teen fragility and angst are out of control. Coming from someone who was bullied as a kid (albeit in middle school and pre-internet), manning up was the only option you had. I know some of my teachers knew what was going on, but they definitely never addressed me about it, and to my knowledge they never let school administration or my parents know. Looking back, I should have told my parents and made it explicit to school officials, but the choice was either to "break down" or man up and do what I had to do.

In general, it annoys me that states are legislating bullying. Not everything is common sense, but in most schools it does not take long to determine that bullying is going on, who may be the victim(s) and the perpetrators. I don't think legislation is needed to determine that something needs to be done about stuff like this in schools. In this particular case, this school/their administration were overly negligent and chose not to deal with it because they probably just didn't want to. It boggles my brain that the DA has decided not to file charges against school officials. Personally I'd like to see some type of criminal negligence...paging the GC lawyers, is something like this even feasible?

Just as I was about to hit the submit button, an update came across the local news saying even more students have been pulled from the school in lieu of this situation. No news on who, what their connection is, and if they will be charged however.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

While times are new, and harassment and bullying come from all angles with the internet, facebook, etc., I also feel like teen fragility and angst are out of control. Coming from someone who was bullied as a kid (albeit in middle school and pre-internet), manning up was the only option you had. I know some of my teachers knew what was going on, but they definitely never addressed me about it, and to my knowledge they never let school administration or my parents know. Looking back, I should have told my parents and made it explicit to school officials, but the choice was either to "break down" or man up and do what I had to do.

I prefer "womaning up."

My siblings and I were both bullied and were the bullies at times from elementary school to middle school. It was very cyclical and often reflected what was going on in terms of our self-esteems. But, we also knew when we, as the bullies, went too far and were (as far as we could tell) seriously hurting someone (like when the person bursts out crying). We would stop because we didn't want to be responsible for really harming someone--we didn't care about our parents finding out.

With that said, it's a void morality on the part of the bullies (you can know when to stop doing something without being afraid of getting in trouble for doing it) and perhaps some fragility on the part of some of the kids being picked on. Much of the latter has to do with having an appropriate support system to buffer the effects of the bullying. If the school and/or parental unit didn't know or didn't act on this, they are DEFINITELY partly responsible for what happened. Children aren't even fully developed mentally and emotionally. Some of them can handle negative stimuli on their own but most can't. This is why they legally have to have school and parental supervision. The school and parental supervision failed on all levels.

***Disclaimer: This texting and Internet generation were born when people were doing less face-to-face interactions and more text and web-based interactions. When we were little, we left our bullies at school or on the bus. My bullies never even called my home phone--we didn't have cellphones. It ups the ante when bullies can get to you over the Internet and distribute information about you via text and the Internet.

***Disclaimer2: These bullies were chicken shit. I don't condone, but I understand if they randomly get their asses whooped over this. Also, the articles said they were attractive, cool kids who played sports--eh, maybe they photo poorly because their photos don't reflect that.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I prefer "womaning up."

Indeed.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Ch2tf

I live in MA and to my knowledge the name of her former boyfriend hasn't been given, so I'm not sure that either of the young men charged is him. That being said, it wouldn't surprise me if these boys aided the "mean girls" in some sort of set up scheme, say at a party with alcohol or something similar. Chances are however, the statutory rape charges are not going to stick/stand during the prosecution.

That would make a lot more sense. Thanks.

I know that back in my day I would have rather DIED than told parents or teachers about being bullyed - but it was such a different era. The computer is as much a part of these kids' lives as TV was ours - just turning it off really isn't an option unless you want to completely divorce yourself from society. As others have said, it's not like when you could come home, lose yourself in TV or radio or a book, and forget about it for an evening and steel yourself to face another day. It's like how a lot of grown people can't ever leave their job behind because of cell phones, PDAs & computers. Not only that, I think seeing it written down just makes it 100x more hideous.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by 33girl

That would make a lot more sense. Thanks.

I know that back in my day I would have rather DIED than told parents or teachers about being bullyed - but it was such a different era. The computer is as much a part of these kids' lives as TV was ours - just turning it off really isn't an option unless you want to completely divorce yourself from society. As others have said, it's not like when you could come home, lose yourself in TV or radio or a book, and forget about it for an evening and steel yourself to face another day. It's like how a lot of grown people can't ever leave their job behind because of cell phones, PDAs & computers. Not only that, I think seeing it written down just makes it 100x more hideous.

Yeah and this is why I believe in having the family computer (the one the kids get to use) in the kitchen and parents having the password for the kid's Facebook (if the kid gets a facebook at all--I hate FB and think very little comes from having one, oh well) and other social network sites/message boards.

Parents need to turn off their phones, PDAs, and even the TV during family time--unless it's family TV time. In other words, technology really sucks and parents are in charge of how much control technology has over their households and family interactions. Keep technology either at work or in the home office as much as possible. I prefer the "if it ain't an emergency--get a life, spend time with your family--and holla at me tomorrow."

If, after dinner and family time, you (in general) decide to read Greekchat () that's fine as long as it doesn't impede on supporting and monitoring your family and checking on what the kids are up to.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

This is one of those things that varies from state to state.

Originally Posted by LegallyBrunette

This is not the law in MA. There is no requirement for a three year age difference.

Which is why I said......

Originally Posted by epchick

So I guess I should being by saying i'm specifically talking about where I am, obviously the law might be different where this girl is at.

[Prettyface08]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

What if this isn't possible? I had a cousin who was bullied in the first grade and was told that if he didn't bring the bully $.50 he was going to be beaten up. My cousin is smaller than the kids his age and at such a young age how can one "man up". We only knew about it because I noticed a change in his behavior, it only stopped because his mom and her sister took action by going to the principal, the teacher, the bully's mom and finally THE BULLY. I always worry about him because he's so small and I know that it's easy for him to become a target, he's so little. Bullying really bothers me because I've seen how stressed out a child can be because of it.

I agree that this younger generation is kind of soft, but you don't know what another persons breaking point is. Just because you can take being taunted and teased doesn't mean that the next person can. This isn't new, it's just that most of the time we hear about it as a murder suicide. This young lady told her parents, her parents told the school and no one protected her.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

We need more kids to just "man up."

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

I agree that there is only some much rationality/"adult" thinking we can expect out of children/teenagers. And I am sure I'm more than slightly biased by the responsibilities (and in some cases lack there of) that I had as a teenager. That being said, we (society) shouldn't be double-dipping. If we can try kids in court as adults, then we should also be able to expect them to take on a certain measure of responsibility in their lives.


Not specifically talking about the South Hadley case, but someone in high school who is being bullied should be have some responsibility in reporting it, to a teacher, school administrator, and/or their parents, and the hope and expectation is that the adults do something about it. Unfortunately for Phoebe, the adults in her school failed miserably in their efforts to deal (not deal with it).

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

That has nothing to do with acting and thinking like an adult.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

Comments like this are very insensitive and shows a lack of understanding. Just like adults some teens (and children for that matter) suffer from clinical depression (most don't even know it) and some folks were born this way, with an unbalanced brain chemistry that may not allow them to see things as rationally as you or be as positive as others. Such problems are made worse by environmental issues and poor nutrition, which we can all agree is greatly impacting adults and children in our society. Whether a choice or not, most people do not choose to committ suicide over such things so obviously something is wrong. Let's not invalidate an experience (which human beings love to do) just because we can't personalize it. Also, whether a child can "man up" or not will depend on these factors as well as their upbringing.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Comments like this are very insensitive and shows a lack of understanding. Just like adults some teens (and children for that matter) suffer from clinical depression (most don't even know it) and some folks were born this way, with an unbalanced brain chemistry that may not allow them to see things as rationally as you or be as positive as others. Such problems are made worse by environmental issues and poor nutrition, which we can all agree is greatly impacting adults and children in our society. Whether a choice or not, most people do not choose to committ suicide over such things so obviously something is wrong. Let's not invalidate an experience (which human beings love to do) just because we can't personalize it. Also, whether a child can "man up" or not will depend on these factors as well as their upbringing.

There is no lack of understanding on my part. I don't even classify what I said as being insensitive. Just like we should not condone kids picking on one another, we should not act as though it is okay to use suicide as a way out. Period.

I was bullied in elementary school. My parents stepped in, but I also got tired of the crap and took matters into my own hands. That was the end of that.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by honeychile

There's a Facebook page: "Expel the three girls who caused Phoebe Prince to commit suicide" Over 26,000 people have joined thus far.

Make no mistake, this ish makes me furious. This story is horribly heartbreaking and I feel so badly for that girl and her family. IDKW the parents didn't pull her out of school or why the administration didn't do more when so many people reported her situation. These little brats need to be charged with whatever bullying laws will allow and be punished as such. But the fact that people (like the above FB group and others who have spoken on the local news here) are saying these little criminals-in-training "caused" the girl to take her life bothers me. The decision to end Phoebe's life was Phoebe's--this is the one thing in this tragedy that was not up to the bullies. Acknowledge that they influenced it heavily and hold them responsible for their despicable actions, but I don't believe it's right to make someone solely responsible for what another person chose to do.

HOWEVER

Originally Posted by honeychile

They had a dance, a cotillion, at the Log Cabin in Holyoke two days after Phoebe’s sister found her in the closet, and some who were there say one of the Mean Girls bragged about how she played dumb with the detectives who questioned her.

As soon as the TV crew was out of sight, one of the Mean Girls came up and slammed the girl who had been interviewed against a locker and punched her in the head.

I hope they are all punished severely and making them look at the autopsy photos is really not a bad idea. And for the love of all things holy, PLEASE don't let the little sister go to that same high school. She's been through enough without all that would go along with that. And do a major overhaul on how administration handles these things as well.