9 Charged after girl kills herself over bullying

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

We need more kids to just "man up."

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

[Ch2tf]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

I agree that there is only some much rationality/"adult" thinking we can expect out of children/teenagers. And I am sure I'm more than slightly biased by the responsibilities (and in some cases lack there of) that I had as a teenager. That being said, we (society) shouldn't be double-dipping. If we can try kids in court as adults, then we should also be able to expect them to take on a certain measure of responsibility in their lives.


Not specifically talking about the South Hadley case, but someone in high school who is being bullied should be have some responsibility in reporting it, to a teacher, school administrator, and/or their parents, and the hope and expectation is that the adults do something about it. Unfortunately for Phoebe, the adults in her school failed miserably in their efforts to deal (not deal with it).

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Yes, if only those stupid kids would just act and think like adults.

Maybe after we can get all adults to do that we can start expecting it of kids.

That has nothing to do with acting and thinking like an adult.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

Comments like this are very insensitive and shows a lack of understanding. Just like adults some teens (and children for that matter) suffer from clinical depression (most don't even know it) and some folks were born this way, with an unbalanced brain chemistry that may not allow them to see things as rationally as you or be as positive as others. Such problems are made worse by environmental issues and poor nutrition, which we can all agree is greatly impacting adults and children in our society. Whether a choice or not, most people do not choose to committ suicide over such things so obviously something is wrong. Let's not invalidate an experience (which human beings love to do) just because we can't personalize it. Also, whether a child can "man up" or not will depend on these factors as well as their upbringing.

[deepimpact2]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

Comments like this are very insensitive and shows a lack of understanding. Just like adults some teens (and children for that matter) suffer from clinical depression (most don't even know it) and some folks were born this way, with an unbalanced brain chemistry that may not allow them to see things as rationally as you or be as positive as others. Such problems are made worse by environmental issues and poor nutrition, which we can all agree is greatly impacting adults and children in our society. Whether a choice or not, most people do not choose to committ suicide over such things so obviously something is wrong. Let's not invalidate an experience (which human beings love to do) just because we can't personalize it. Also, whether a child can "man up" or not will depend on these factors as well as their upbringing.

There is no lack of understanding on my part. I don't even classify what I said as being insensitive. Just like we should not condone kids picking on one another, we should not act as though it is okay to use suicide as a way out. Period.

I was bullied in elementary school. My parents stepped in, but I also got tired of the crap and took matters into my own hands. That was the end of that.

[christiangirl]

Originally Posted by honeychile

There's a Facebook page: "Expel the three girls who caused Phoebe Prince to commit suicide" Over 26,000 people have joined thus far.

Make no mistake, this ish makes me furious. This story is horribly heartbreaking and I feel so badly for that girl and her family. IDKW the parents didn't pull her out of school or why the administration didn't do more when so many people reported her situation. These little brats need to be charged with whatever bullying laws will allow and be punished as such. But the fact that people (like the above FB group and others who have spoken on the local news here) are saying these little criminals-in-training "caused" the girl to take her life bothers me. The decision to end Phoebe's life was Phoebe's--this is the one thing in this tragedy that was not up to the bullies. Acknowledge that they influenced it heavily and hold them responsible for their despicable actions, but I don't believe it's right to make someone solely responsible for what another person chose to do.

HOWEVER

Originally Posted by honeychile

They had a dance, a cotillion, at the Log Cabin in Holyoke two days after Phoebe’s sister found her in the closet, and some who were there say one of the Mean Girls bragged about how she played dumb with the detectives who questioned her.

As soon as the TV crew was out of sight, one of the Mean Girls came up and slammed the girl who had been interviewed against a locker and punched her in the head.

I hope they are all punished severely and making them look at the autopsy photos is really not a bad idea. And for the love of all things holy, PLEASE don't let the little sister go to that same high school. She's been through enough without all that would go along with that. And do a major overhaul on how administration handles these things as well.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I have mixed feelings about this. It is getting really old to see stories like this. It would be better if school systems would take the initiative to do more about the bullying before it gets to this point. I fail to understand why it is okay to do something about it AFTER the fact, but no one feels it is serious enough to handle it at the time. smh

But I will say that as sad as this situation is, SHE chose to kill herself. I don't understand that thought process. Skip school. Don't go kill yourself because of bullies at school. We need more kids to just "man up." All this teenage fragility and angst is getting to be really old.

Until you're in someone's shoes who has gone through this, you will never understand. That's not putting YOU down personally, just saying that those who do not understand suicide are usually those who've never been in those situations. Sometimes the bullying is so bad that you feel there's really nothing else you can do. Committing suicide is like getting revenge on the girls. Unfortunately in this case, the girls have no remorse.

Suicide, mutilation, etc., is a disease, not a choice.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Until you're in someone's shoes who has gone through this, you will never understand. That's not putting YOU down personally, just saying that those who do not understand suicide are usually those who've never been in those situations. Sometimes the bullying is so bad that you feel there's really nothing else you can do. Committing suicide is like getting revenge on the girls. Unfortunately in this case, the girls have no remorse.

Suicide, mutilation, etc., is a disease, not a choice.

Many people who study suicide and life threatening behaviors do not see suicide and other self-harming behaviors themselves as the diseases.

The causes and correlates are the potential diseases and disorders. However, not everyone who attempts or commits suicide had what every professional would consider a disease outside of the after-the-fact assumption that anyone who commits suicide had a disease.

So, essentially, you're positing the opposite of what deepimpact said. She says it doesn't make sense/is damn near ridiculous and you say it's absolutely a disease. I posit there's a middle ground that combines personal choice (there is decision making in perceiving suicide as the only way out; and as revenge against the bullies) with social and mental/emotional correlates, but precludes reducing every form of deviant behavior to a "disease."

[knight_shadow]

And another:

Parents send their children to school hoping they'll be safe and protected. Sadly, more and more often, that does not appear to be the case. Bullying may have claimed the life of another North Texas youngster. Jon Carmichael took his own life Sunday after what some say was bullying by bigger classmates.

Jon Carmichael was an 8th grader at Loflin Middle School, which just opened two weeks ago. Those closest to the 13-year-old say he had been bullied for years.


http://cbs11tv.com/local/jon.carmich...2.1601157.html

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by knight_shadow

And another:

Parents send their children to school hoping they'll be safe and protected. Sadly, more and more often, that does not appear to be the case. Bullying may have claimed the life of another North Texas youngster. Jon Carmichael took his own life Sunday after what some say was bullying by bigger classmates.

Jon Carmichael was an 8th grader at Loflin Middle School, which just opened two weeks ago. Those closest to the 13-year-old say he had been bullied for years.


http://cbs11tv.com/local/jon.carmich...2.1601157.html

This is a "contagion effect."

All of these kids don't have diagnosable and documentable mental and emotional disorders that contribute to their suicide response. Many of them have observed that suicide is a "quick fix" and (as is the case in many suicides, particularly for certain age groups and for females more than males) some of them may've been crying out and attempting suicide but no one found them and saved them before they killed themselves.

These are children, so I expect for them to be extremely short sighted, of little faith, and selfish (or even perceivably cowardly) in most endeavors. Therefore, when buffers are weakened or absent in their lives, it "makes sense" that more kids are choosing suicide when they feel there are no other quick fixes. Family only matters but so much for kids--kids get to an age where it seems as though they'd rather be liked by their peers than anything else. It is sad because fast forward a few years and they could've said what a lot of people say, which is "I remember when I was 10 and I was bullied--I was tormented. I was soooo depressed...thank God I got over that hurdle and didn't harm myself or others."

Suicide increases with age and is highest for those over the age of 50, so it's really interesting when suicide rates increase in the younger age groups. There are a number of explanations for this.

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

This is a "contagion effect."

All of these kids don't have diagnosable and documentable mental and emotional disorders that contribute to their suicide response. Many of them have observed that suicide is a "quick fix" and (as is the case in many suicides, particularly for certain age groups and for females more than males) some of them may've been crying out and attempting suicide but no one found them and saved them before they killed themselves.

These are children, so I expect for them to be extremely short sighted, of little faith, and selfish (or even perceivably cowardly) in most endeavors. Therefore, when buffers are weakened or absent in their lives, it "makes sense" that more kids are choosing suicide when they feel there are no other quick fixes. Family only matters but so much for kids--kids get to an age where it seems as though they'd rather be liked by their peers than anything else. It is sad because fast forward a few years and they could've said what a lot of people say, which is "I remember when I was 10 and I was bullied--I was tormented. I was soooo depressed...thank God I got over that hurdle and didn't harm myself or others."

Suicide increases with age and is highest for those over the age of 50, so it's really interesting when suicide rates increase in the younger age groups. There are a number of explanations for this.

This does not at all mean that they did not have such disorders and if you do the research, you will see that such disorders in children and adults have greatly increased over the years due to many factors. We are not only a physically sick society but we are also more and more becoming a mental and emotionally sick society and we are doing it to ourselves in many many ways.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by rhoyaltempest

...if you do the research....

I conduct quantitative and qualitative research in suicide and self-harming behaviors. I also attend symposiums where people from different fields and approaches to the study and treatment of suicide debate and share their take on suicide.

What now?

[rhoyaltempest]

Originally Posted by DrPhil

I conduct quantitative and qualitative research in suicide and self-harming behaviors. I also attend symposiums where people from different fields and approaches to the study and treatment of suicide debate and share their take on suicide.

What now?

Not talking about suicide as a stand alone but rather more about psychological disorders in children. They are on the rise, and for adults also. Our physical well being can be directly linked to our mental and emotional well being. We are creating our own problems, all of us as a society, through everything from environmental issues to nutrition to modern medicine. So since we are all part of the problem or at least contributors, we need not throw away folks or be insensitive to these issues; could be our loved ones next. And I'm just speaking generally. We are so quick to be insensitive to other human beings or shell out blame when the issues don't personally impact us.

[srmom]

http://cbs11tv.com/local/school.bull...2.1601141.html

Here is a case where the boy "manned up" and dealt with it, everyone doing the appropriate thing, talked to his parents, parents talked to administrators, etc. yet the shithead bullies still didn't stop until the kid ended up in the emergency room with a torn rectum from a wedgie.

Parents wanted kids punished by school, not enough response, so they went to the cops. What was the punishment? Supervised counseling

Boy, that's gonna show them.

As to the situation with this poor girl who committed suicide and the 9 bullies.

I wonder how the parents of the bullies are feeling now? From things I've read online, these kids had horrific facebook pages, with one of the girls brother's status saying, "N****** suck, White Power!" Lovely. Real paragons of virtue, these ones.

Regardless of the eventual punishment, be it jail time or "supervised counseling", these kids lives are ruined. In this day and age of Google, with your history following you forever, they'll be plenty punished when they cannot repair their reputations, get into college, or get a job.

[DrPhil]

Originally Posted by srmom

Parents wanted kids punished by school, not enough response, so they went to the cops. What was the punishment? Supervised counseling

Maybe my parents were more kick-ass but they never completely relinquished control over my outcomes to other adults.

Parents need to remember that they have more of a vested interest in their child's well-being than the school and cops ever do. Don't sit back and wait. That might require going to the school for an early lunch break, putting your child in a self-defense program, or taking the kid to a new school (I wouldn't want my kid in a school full of adult idiots, anyway).