balanced man vs traditional

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by tnalpha13

Traditional fraternity allows the real FRATERNITY experience. We were founded on one main principle: Brotherly Love. This is not shown through the majority of BMPS. Traditional chapters allow brothers to become best friends through pledging. Pledging is what makes a fraternity in my opinion. It forms the pledges into a better man. BMPS do not allow this. They truly do not understand. Come to a traditional Sig Ep fraternity, and you will see the difference. I know all the brothers in my fraternity, and became close to them through my trials in pledging. A pledge in my chapter in my opinion is more a brother than "balance men" at other schools. This is based on the fact that these guys have to know the history of our fraternity, and they have to earn a spot to be called a Sig Ep. I do not like handing out bids left and right (and getting initiated on the spot) It can ruin a fraternity, because you let in guys that do not know why we have these princples founded by Ashton, Gaw, Phiilips, Carter, Wallace, Wright, and Jenkins. The reason I am upset about BM is because of that. I am a proud memeber of a traditional chapter, and when I see BM brothers at other schools. I have a hard time believing they earned the right to be called my brother, because they do not have any idea why I went through in order to be come a brother. Brotherhood is what Sig Ep needs. Not balance man.

Do you realize that when you're extended a bid in the BMP and become a member, you go through Sigma Ritual which is the equivalent of your pledge of intents. As the VP of Member Development of my chapter, I make sure that everyone earns their way into the heart of the Fraternity. No one is just going through the motions--not in my chapter. You didn't even get our 12 founding fathers right, so don't begin to tell anyone that BMP chapters don't learn the history. Also, although I didn't have a pledge class, I did have a Rush class and I depend on these guys more than anything. We've been through everything together. There are 7 of us left because the BMP actually weeded the other 11 out. Still, I know all of my active Brothers and a ton of alumni really, really well. Another thing, you said pledging turns the guys into better men. That right there is 100% the goal of THE BALANCED MAN PROGRAM. I've talked to guys from pledge model chapters and most of them do not live up to SigEp values. I will not discredit your pledging experience and I actually do wish I could have experienced pledging.

We don't just coast through the BMP. There are things we actually have to do just like pledges.

[traditionalSPE2]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

Do you realize that when you're extended a bid in the BMP and become a member, you go through Sigma Ritual which is the equivalent of your pledge of intents. As the VP of Member Development of my chapter, I make sure that everyone earns their way into the heart of the Fraternity. No one is just going through the motions--not in my chapter. You didn't even get our 12 founding fathers right, so don't begin to tell anyone that BMP chapters don't learn the history. Also, although I didn't have a pledge class, I did have a Rush class and I depend on these guys more than anything. We've been through everything together. There are 7 of us left because the BMP actually weeded the other 11 out. Still, I know all of my active Brothers and a ton of alumni really, really well. Another thing, you said pledging turns the guys into better men. That right there is 100% the goal of THE BALANCED MAN PROGRAM. I've talked to guys from pledge model chapters and most of them do not live up to SigEp values. I will not discredit your pledging experience and I actually do wish I could have experienced pledging.

We don't just coast through the BMP. There are things we actually have to do just like pledges.

No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue. BMP is turning a great social fraternity into an academic honors society which is NOT what a fraternity is supposed to be. Go to any school where SPE has been forced to become balanced man and they are a bottom tiered no matter where you look. I have been to schools where they are BMP and NO-ONE takes them seriously. It usually starts with "they are wimps, they have pledging, no one takes them seriously on campus, give bids to everyone, etc." The only chapters that are still relevant and produce the wealthiest and most successful alumni are those that are (or were) traditional chapters.

You must have some period of mental and physical anguish to bring men together and respect each other. Think of it as a bit like boot camp where you turn civilians into men who would take a bullet for each other in a second. It sucks for a few weeks but after it is done you will never be the same. Some of the activities are what would today be considered "hazing" but this is still needed to build better men. Yeah so maybe some of us were "hazed" but so what? It was hazing and pledging that turned us into better men. You can't just give someone their letters immediately without them proving they are worthy of them.

The same can't be said for BMP there is no real obstacle to becoming a brother. You said you have met brothers from pledging chapters who dont live up to the fraternity's values. Maybe our interpretation of the founding principles of the fraternity are different then yours. In our eyes in order to build virtue, diligence, and "brotherly love" you all must suffer and go through hell together before you can really really live up to these principles (particularly the latter).

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by traditionalSPE2

No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue. BMP is turning a great social fraternity into an academic honors society which is NOT what a fraternity is supposed to be. Go to any school where SPE has been forced to become balanced man and they are a bottom tiered no matter where you look. I have been to schools where they are BMP and NO-ONE takes them seriously. It usually starts with "they are wimps, they have pledging, no one takes them seriously on campus, give bids to everyone, etc." The only chapters that are still relevant and produce the wealthiest and most successful alumni are those that are (or were) traditional chapters.

You must have some period of mental and physical anguish to bring men together and respect each other. Think of it as a bit like boot camp where you turn civilians into men who would take a bullet for each other in a second. It sucks for a few weeks but after it is done you will never be the same. Some of the activities are what would today be considered "hazing" but this is still needed to build better men. Yeah so maybe some of us were "hazed" but so what? It was hazing and pledging that turned us into better men. You can't just give someone their letters immediately without them proving they are worthy of them.

The same can't be said for BMP there is no real obstacle to becoming a brother. You said you have met brothers from pledging chapters who dont live up to the fraternity's values. Maybe our interpretation of the founding principles of the fraternity are different then yours. In our eyes in order to build virtue, diligence, and "brotherly love" you all must suffer and go through hell together before you can really really live up to these principles (particularly the latter).

It was the lack of hazing that turned all of my Brothers into better men. But everyone is different. And maybe our principles are interpreted different. But I feel that VDBL should be encouraged and fostered within each Brother, not forced. To me, that's how it's truly understood. And it took me 9 weeks to earn my letters. It isn't like I just walked in the door, got my letters, and then sat around coasting on through. Like I said before, I actually had to do stuff to climb my way through the BMP.

The thing is that I've seen pledge model and BMP chapters succeed and fail. That's why I feel the way I do. It's not like I'm just sitting on one side of the fence. Of course I'm a bit biased, but it's truly what I feel.

Also, why gauge the success of a chapter by how much money the alumni make? That's stupid. I was just at one of my alum's $3mil lake house this weekend. So what?

"No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue."
I don't know what you're saying with this sentence. Double negatives don't make sense.
But I read the Ritual guide from a pledge model chapter and it was the exact same Ritual I have been through.

And I'm sure BMP chapters are not bottom tiered everywhere. We're top tier at my school while the chapters that pledge around me are all on their way to being shut down because they're not able to recruit members. Hell, I can brag to you about my BMP chapter for days and I'm sure you can brag about your pledging chapter just the same.

This argument is never going to get anywhere. Ever.

[TNK274]

Originally Posted by pshsx1

It was the lack of hazing that turned all of my Brothers into better men. But everyone is different. And maybe our principles are interpreted different. But I feel that VDBL should be encouraged and fostered within each Brother, not forced. To me, that's how it's truly understood. And it took me 9 weeks to earn my letters. It isn't like I just walked in the door, got my letters, and then sat around coasting on through. Like I said before, I actually had to do stuff to climb my way through the BMP.

The thing is that I've seen pledge model and BMP chapters succeed and fail. That's why I feel the way I do. It's not like I'm just sitting on one side of the fence. Of course I'm a bit biased, but it's truly what I feel.

Also, why gauge the success of a chapter by how much money the alumni make? That's stupid. I was just at one of my alum's $3mil lake house this weekend. So what?

"No BMP inductees do not go through full ritual until they are older and that is completely untrue."
I don't know what you're saying with this sentence. Double negatives don't make sense.
But I read the Ritual guide from a pledge model chapter and it was the exact same Ritual I have been through.

And I'm sure BMP chapters are not bottom tiered everywhere. We're top tier at my school while the chapters that pledge around me are all on their way to being shut down because they're not able to recruit members. Hell, I can brag to you about my BMP chapter for days and I'm sure you can brag about your pledging chapter just the same.

This argument is never going to get anywhere. Ever.

As soon as we put guys through Sigma they get the letters. Now that I've been around for I while I really think that idea sucks, but that's the way they've always done it here...Our alums' interpretation of the BMP is that you get full priviledges from day aside from Ritual Knowledge and getting to wear the Founder's Badge.

[ABM07]

My brother's sig ep chapter had its charter revoked because they didn't support the balanced man program. They had highest GPA and highest recruitment on campus even with the pledge model. Success can happen without Balance Man

[pshsx1]

Originally Posted by SPETJS

I'm in a BMS chapter, as well as the VP Recruitment. We don't earn our letters because as soon as we accept our bid card we get a shirt. Which demeans the fraternity. I've looked at past VPs recruiting classes and do see why it is Sigma Phi Everyone. We have guys that join because our recruiters are just too good and convince them to, and then they don't do anything in the chapter. That is detrimental to the fraternity. A pledge process would weed them out, because after they don't come to anything, we could black ball them.

I think a pledge model would solve many of our chapters commitment problems, and am not a huge fan of the BMP. Leadership is great, but half the stuff they make us do is worthless. We are a fraternity.

If you don't like your chapter, make some changes or quit. Stop bitching.

Originally Posted by ABM07

My brother's sig ep chapter had its charter revoked because they didn't support the balanced man program. They had highest GPA and highest recruitment on campus even with the pledge model. Success can happen without Balance Man

Stop instigating.