Coakley vs. Brown

AOII Angel · #1 02-01-2010, 10:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimano

It is even easier to blame the system as the source of the probems. The only flaw with Obama blaming the system is the rich and the poor both operate under the same system.

How is cutting costs going to open a can of worms? If you think lowering costs will open a can of worms then what do you think will happen if Obama changes the whole system?

I do know how to lower costs. It is not rocket science. Costs were not always out of control. It was only a generation back(two in your hood) that health care was affordable. The solution is to identify the changes that caused the costs to rise in the first place. At that point the cause of the problem can be addressed. Illegals, tort reform, competition, fraud, and slackards that never work.

You know absolutely Jack about the health care system. There are multiple reasons why costs have sky rocketed over the past several decades and the least of the problems have to do with illegals. We have major changes in technology and no system to limit the use of these extremely expensive procedures/drugs, etc. Until you are a part of the health care system, don't come lecture me about controlling costs...I've heard it all before.

MysticCat · #2 02-02-2010, 11:19 AM

I'm not sure which I find more amusing: That someone who knows what she's talking about (AOII Angel) is arguing with madmax (shimano) like there's he might actually be convinced or that Kevin is agreeing with mm.

AOII Angel · #3 02-02-2010, 11:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

I'm not sure which I find more amusing: That someone who knows what she's talking about (AOII Angel) is arguing with madmax (shimano) like there's he might actually be convinced or that Kevin is agreeing with mm.

Ahhh....it's just stress release!

MysticCat · #4 02-02-2010, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Ahhh....it's just stress release!

Oh believe me -- I understand the sport of it.

Kevin · #5 02-02-2010, 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticCat

Kevin is agreeing with mm.

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

MysticCat · #6 02-02-2010, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Sometimes even a blind squirrel finds a nut.

LOL.

Nut or nutjob, though?

AOII Angel · #7 02-02-2010, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimano

It sounds like you are living in denial. How much do you think it costs to insure 30 million illegals? Is it free.

If the illegals have access to the extremely expensive procedures that you mentioned does that lower costs?

And who is insuring them pray tell? I will give you that one aspect of cost is the cost of ER visits where no one can be turned away paying or not paying....but that is our current system and not likely to change.

PiKA2001 · #8 02-02-2010, 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And who is insuring them pray tell? I will give you that one aspect of cost is the cost of ER visits where no one can be turned away paying or not paying....but that is our current system and not likely to change.

I went to the ER right after college before I had my own insurance, they never even bothered to give me a bill. They just sent my information straight to a collection agency, which by the way is still on my credit report. I was so mad about that at the time. If people are so upset about the current ER system they should just work the system give a fake name and SSN when they have to go, not like they can turn you away.

AOII Angel · #9 02-02-2010, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

I went to the ER right after college before I had my own insurance, they never even bothered to give me a bill. They just sent my information straight to a collection agency, which by the way is still on my credit report. I was so mad about that at the time. If people are so upset about the current ER system they should just work the system give a fake name and SSN when they have to go, not like they can turn you away.

Trust me, it happens all the time. I trained in a charity system. We didn't even know how to tell if you had insurance! I'd be pretty ticked off if they sent me to a collection agency without trying to collect from me first. Louisiana actually has a really good indigent care system, though it is under funded and our poor generally don't get into the system until their disease processes are quite advanced. You have to know the system is available to take part of it. Shimano is really cracking me up with his "who pays for the ER visits?" Of course, we all pay for these visits....it's THE most expensive way to treat patients. I was seen in the ER for 15 minutes for a migraine from door to door with a CT in between (it helps when you work there!) and my bill was $900. It costs a lot less to be seen by a primary care physician in his/her office. If you want to bring down costs, insure the illegal immigrants and poor who are clogging up our ERs and give them all a primary care physician who can see them cheaply. This will go a LONG way to bring down costs. There you go Shimano...a plan that NO ONE will champion to reduce costs. BUT it would bring down costs. Your plan-- don't let anyone who doesn't have an insurance card through the doors of an ER-- would result in a pile of dead people outside the ER bay doors and would result in an outcry so loud we'd never hear the end of it!

KSig RC · #10 02-02-2010, 04:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shimano

Who is insuring them? Who do you think pays for their ER vistis? Do you think it is free?

Who is a bigger burden on the health care system: illegal immigrants (let's say "30 million") or senior citizens (guess whether that's more than 30MM or fewer)?

Both pay approximately the same amount for their visits, in the grand scheme of things (i.e. "not nearly enough to cover their costs"). I'm sure a couple people will pay good money to watch you pull the plug on your dear ol' pop-pop.

AOII Angel · #11 02-02-2010, 04:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Who is a bigger burden on the health care system: illegal immigrants (let's say "30 million") or senior citizens (guess whether that's more than 30MM or fewer)?

Both pay approximately the same amount for their visits, in the grand scheme of things (i.e. "not nearly enough to cover their costs"). I'm sure a couple people will pay good money to watch you pull the plug on your dear ol' pop-pop.

Oh lord....let's not bring up the Death Panels

KSig RC · #12 02-02-2010, 05:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Oh lord....let's not bring up the Death Panels

Yeah - I don't want to act like I'm supporting that bit of right-wing fearmongering at all . . . but it's worth noting that there is no single problem, no spigot to turn off, that makes health care reasonably priced all of the sudden, and old people (who are the most overrepresented lobbying group in the US) are just the most expedient example.

Sorry, those over 60! You're just SUCH A GOOD EXAMPLE.

AOII Angel · #13 02-02-2010, 06:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Yeah - I don't want to act like I'm supporting that bit of right-wing fearmongering at all . . . but it's worth noting that there is no single problem, no spigot to turn off, that makes health care reasonably priced all of the sudden, and old people (who are the most overrepresented lobbying group in the US) are just the most expedient example.

Sorry, those over 60! You're just SUCH A GOOD EXAMPLE.

I get ya...in the end, this is called rationing. It's what they do in Europe. It makes sense, but as soon as you bring it up, people flip out.