Coakley vs. Brown

[AnchorAlum]

So interesting that I can come on this site and find what's basically a very good discussion that reveals a spectrum of thought and opinion - and glad to find it, by the way.

I think that the angry poster - nasty? - has some positions that hold merit. It's just that it's conveyed in a manner that's not conducive to getting folks to agree. Seems to lead to just shouting noise past the other's ear.

Health care provided by the employer was one of the ways a company could gain the loyalty of an experienced work force, back when jobs were plentiful and there was real competition for you and I to join one company over the other.

How many of us are old enough to have heard our parents or even our peers (if we're of a certain age) say that they would leave XYZ but that they couldn't get a job anywhere else that matched the benefits of their current employer?

Can you imagine an auto worker leaving their job to go into another field with an HMO that the rest of the industrialized world is familiar with? I lived in the Detroit 'burbs for a few years and sat in waiting rooms, watched patients check out at the window and pay next to nothing for their care, while I paid a co-pay that was more in line with what everyone else outside of the UAW universe paid.
If you saw that on a regular basis, you'd understand what a "cadillac" plan is.

Now I have private insurance, for which I pay about $8500 a year. I have a $2500 deductible, yet the proposed plan determined that I had a "cadillac" plan for which I'd have to pay taxes. I can assure you, at my age, with private insurance, many of those in my age bracket pay that much for insurance. (My employer gives me about half of that to help with the premiums, and if I raised my deductible to $5000 it would drop my premium by about $1800 a year)

One of the things that always seem to be absent in these comparisons to European plans is that their governments have much higher tax rates than the US, and they don't have the tort situation we have, and moreover, they don't spend the billions and billions we've obligated ourselves to militarily to defend....the Europeans. Sure frees up dollars to spend on other things, like health services.

Now, as to illegals being in the US and some - gasp - having jobs, I have two things -
number one, that's changed a good bit. Otherwise, they have jobs that Americans should have to reduce our 10% unemployment rate. Secondly, if they do have jobs, it doesn't matter. The conversation should stop at the word illegal. Otherwise eliminate the world illegal. Either it means something, or it doesn't. Change the law or observe it.

That's my two cents. Carry on.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlum

Can you imagine an auto worker leaving their job to go into another field with an HMO that the rest of the industrialized world is familiar with? I lived in the Detroit 'burbs for a few years and sat in waiting rooms, watched patients check out at the window and pay next to nothing for their care, while I paid a co-pay that was more in line with what everyone else outside of the UAW universe paid.
If you saw that on a regular basis, you'd understand what a "cadillac" plan is.

They want to exempt unions from the cadillac plan tax for the first ten years of this gaggle. I think its bullshit that I have to pay a higher tax because I choose to participate in a high option plan but a union member with a comparable health plan is exempt purely because of POLITICS! This along with the Nebraska Medicare deal and the other vote buying favors is really making me question if government health care is going to help us or make the problem even worse. Pick your Devil, big business or big government.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PiKA2001

They want to exempt unions from the cadillac plan tax for the first ten years of this gaggle. I think its bullshit that I have to pay a higher tax because I choose to participate in a high option plan but a union member with a comparable health plan is exempt purely because of POLITICS! This along with the Nebraska Medicare deal and the other vote buying favors is really making me question if government health care is going to help us or make the problem even worse. Pick your Devil, big business or big government.

I'm still convinced that the purpose of this bill is to 1) make us feel entitled to health care; and 2) drive the cost of private insurance up so high and create such a boondoggle that the public will overwhelmingly support a public system.

[PiKA2001]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I'm still convinced that the purpose of this bill is to 1) make us feel entitled to health care; and 2) drive the cost of private insurance up so high and create such a boondoggle that the public will overwhelmingly support a public system.

In response to your post; 1) I think a majority of people are already there; 2) so true. One of the AM radio shows constantly plays a clip of Pelosi stating " until the people DEMAND a public option" or something of that nature. Unless you're lucky enough to get your mandatory insurance policy subsidized, this monster is most likely going to be the average American's most costly expense after housing and transportation. I don't see how anyone Making anywhere from 25-45k can afford this without a public option.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by shimano

The purpose is redistribution of wealth.

He said so himself during the campaign.

He can only do so much though, and with a Republican legislature (which'll happen in 2-4 years, both houses), he won't be able to accomplish any of that.