Obama has won a Nobel

deepimpact2 · #1 10-10-2009, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

DI2 in all seriousness, why did he do to deserve it. You keep getting on us for saying we don't feel he deserves it, but all you say was we are not on the committee who chose him. That is true, but we are still entitled to our opinions. None of us are saying he will never deserve it, but we feel that he has done nothing as of yet to be considered "the person who shall have done the most or the best work for fraternity between nations, for the abolition or reduction of standing armies and for the holding and promotion of peace congresses."

Simply saying that this doesn't appear to have been given based on the typical selection criteria is one thing. Saying he just flat out doesn't deserve it is another. The latter is judgmental and presumptuous. Furthermore, if you are aware of WHY they gave him the award, then what is the problem? I think it has been made quite clear that he received it in essence because of EXPECTATIONS in the FUTURE. If that is the case, it is too early to say he doesn't deserve it because he hasn't had time to live up to those expectations. There's just too much eagerness surrounding his presidency. eagerness to see him operate as superman and transform the country and fix all problems in less than a year OR eagerness to say he is a bad president when he has been in office less than a year.

I think some people are overly critical of this because they feel he is getting too many accolades simply by being elected as the first black president of the United States.

Psi U MC Vito · #2 10-10-2009, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Simply saying that this doesn't appear to have been given based on the typical selection criteria is one thing. Saying he just flat out doesn't deserve it is another. The latter is judgmental and presumptuous. Furthermore, if you are aware of WHY they gave him the award, then what is the problem? I think it has been made quite clear that he received it in essence because of EXPECTATIONS in the FUTURE. If that is the case, it is too early to say he doesn't deserve it because he hasn't had time to live up to those expectations. There's just too much eagerness surrounding his presidency. eagerness to see him operate as superman and transform the country and fix all problems in less than a year OR eagerness to say he is a bad president when he has been in office less than a year.

I think some people are overly critical of this because they feel he is getting too many accolades simply by being elected as the first black president of the United States.

Yes and that's why a lot of us are against this. He talks the good talk and that was enough for him to get what is considered one of the most prestigious award in the world. Nobody here is saying we expect him to work miracles in less then a year, or that he is a bad president because he hasn't fixed some pretty major problems. The point is he hasn't as of yet lived up to his promises, yet by saying he will he gets the Peace Prize? That's our issue.

deepimpact2 · #3 10-10-2009, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Psi U MC Vito

Yes and that's why a lot of us are against this. He talks the good talk and that was enough for him to get what is considered one of the most prestigious award in the world. Nobody here is saying we expect him to work miracles in less then a year, or that he is a bad president because he hasn't fixed some pretty major problems. The point is he hasn't as of yet lived up to his promises, yet by saying he will he gets the Peace Prize? That's our issue.

What I guess I don't understand is why you feel you need to make it an issue. This is one of those things that is left up to the discretion of the committee. If they wish to break with their own tradition, they are well within their right to do so. They don't really have to answer to the general public.

epchick · #4 10-10-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I think it has been made quite clear that he received it in essence because of EXPECTATIONS in the FUTURE.

And that is EXACTLY why some of us (like myself) feel he doesn't deserve it........yet. If he fulfills all these expectations, then sure go ahead and give him the prize. But why should he get it now, when he hasn't fulfilled them yet? The Nobel Prize hasn't (at least from my understanding) been given out to just expectations, they've been given out to actions. He hasn't completed anything yet, he hasn't SHOWN anything yet (except that he apparently loves to talk). That isn't Nobel Prize worthy.

deepimpact2 · #5 10-10-2009, 09:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by epchick

And that is EXACTLY why some of us (like myself) feel he doesn't deserve it........yet. If he fulfills all these expectations, then sure go ahead and give him the prize. But why should he get it now, when he hasn't fulfilled them yet? The Nobel Prize hasn't (at least from my understanding) been given out to just expectations, they've been given out to actions. He hasn't completed anything yet, he hasn't SHOWN anything yet (except that he apparently loves to talk). That isn't Nobel Prize worthy.

The problem is that it really is none of your business why they decided to give it to him based on expectations. Let the folks in Europe do what THEY want to do with an award that THEY give. People are wasting their time griping and complaining about it. Just because you and some others think he doesn't deserve the award doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things and thank goodness for that.

I completely understand why Europeans feel the way they do about Americans...

Kappamd · #6 10-10-2009, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

The problem is that it really is none of your business why they decided to give it to him based on expectations. Let the folks in Europe do what THEY want to do with an award that THEY give. People are wasting their time griping and complaining about it. Just because you and some others think he doesn't deserve the award doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things and thank goodness for that.

I completely understand why Europeans feel the way they do about Americans...

Yeah, thank you for providing such a great example.

deepimpact2 · #7 10-10-2009, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kappamd

Yeah, thank you for providing such a great example.

Whatever.

And the attitudes concerning the olympics also validate my statement. I still can't believe someone had the nerve to say they wondered if this would "help" Obama after he "lost" the olympic bid for Chicago. REALLY? smh

texas*princess · #8 10-11-2009, 11:58 PM

Personally, I think the win was a bit premature. I'm not one to say "he didn't deserve it!!!!!" or "PROVE TO ME WHY HE DESERVED IT!!" It already happened. There's nothing anyone can do about it. The committee members thought he was the best for whatever reason, and they're the ones who decide who wins, so whatever.

SWTXBelle · #9 10-12-2009, 07:27 AM

Just because those in a position to award a prize chose someone does not mean they necessarily earned it - I'm reminded of the good ol' days of the Olympics when Russian and other Soviet Bloc judges could be counted on to blatently favor their athletes. Certain Academy Award winners have surprised me - and not in a good way. Emmys, Grammys, Tonys, heck, MTV Music Awards

- Debating the winners of subjective awards is the American way!

No one that I've read has advocated taking the award away, draw and quartering the judges, or really anything in terms of "doing something" about it. I've requested (both here and in my newspaper column) that those who feel he deserved the award let me know what it is they feel qualifies as Obama having done the "best and most" in promoting peace but no one does.

deepimpact2 · #10 10-12-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I've requested (both here and in my newspaper column) that those who feel he deserved the award let me know what it is they feel qualifies as Obama having done the "best and most" in promoting peace but no one does.

Perhaps that is because in light of the circumstances, we aren't obligated to do so. No one has to answer to you or anyone else who disgrees with the decision because the committee has the discretion to do what they feel is best. The fact that they felt this way is enough for me and should be enough for you.

SWTXBelle · #11 10-12-2009, 02:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Perhaps that is because in light of the circumstances, we aren't obligated to do so. No one has to answer to you or anyone else who disgrees with the decision because the committee has the discretion to do what they feel is best. The fact that they felt this way is enough for me and should be enough for you.

Obligated? Strange choice of words. No, you are not obligated to answer me, but the failure to do so indicates that you have no valid answer to a very fair, logical question - what has Obama done to deserve the award? No answer would seem to indicate that you have, well, no answer to that question. Fair enough. But who are you to tell me that I cannot feel he was given the award for reasons other than those specified in Nobel's will? I've felt no need to tell those who feel he earned it that they are wrong or that anything that is "enough for me" must needs be enough for them. I would honestly like to know what it is that Obama has achieved since becoming president (never mind within the 9 days between his becoming president and being nominated) that merits the Nobel Peace Prize. And just as an FYI - he is hardly the first controversial award winner.

If, as you have done, you wish to criticize those who feel that he does not deserve the award then you have in fact demonstrated that "the fact that they felt this way is enough for me" is not true. If it were, you wouldn't be as invested in this thread.

deepimpact2 · #12 10-12-2009, 05:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

Obligated? Strange choice of words. No, you are not obligated to answer me, but the failure to do so indicates that you have no valid answer to a very fair, logical question - what has Obama done to deserve the award? No answer would seem to indicate that you have, well, no answer to that question. Fair enough. But who are you to tell me that I cannot feel he was given the award for reasons other than those specified in Nobel's will? I've felt no need to tell those who feel he earned it that they are wrong or that anything that is "enough for me" must needs be enough for them. I would honestly like to know what it is that Obama has achieved since becoming president (never mind within the 9 days between his becoming president and being nominated) that merits the Nobel Peace Prize. And just as an FYI - he is hardly the first controversial award winner.

If, as you have done, you wish to criticize those who feel that he does not deserve the award then you have in fact demonstrated that "the fact that they felt this way is enough for me" is not true. If it were, you wouldn't be as invested in this thread.

No, it doesn't indicate a lack of a valid answer. You should know that from many of the discussions that have taken place on here. More than likely it is the presumptuous tone of your question.

And since, as you pointed out, he ISN'T the first controversial award winner, that should remove some of the shock and surprise.

SWTXBelle · #13 10-12-2009, 05:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

No, it doesn't indicate a lack of a valid answer. You should know that from many of the discussions that have taken place on here. More than likely it is the presumptuous tone of your question.

And since, as you pointed out, he ISN'T the first controversial award winner, that should remove some of the shock and surprise.

If it doesn't indicate a lack of a valid answer, do tell why you (or anyone) who has a valid answer would play coy and not give it.

It's hardly presumptuous (presumptous of what, exactly?) to say I don't feel he fits the criteria (which I quoted, just in case) and to ask that if you do, please tell what he has done that would qualify him to win. If, for whatever reason, you chose not to disclose why you think he qualifies - what are we to think?

When did shock and surprise enter the conversation? I will say that Obama himself said he was surprised - did you expect him to win? Really? (Rhetorical question, btw.)

KSig RC · #14 10-12-2009, 04:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Perhaps that is because in light of the circumstances, we aren't obligated to do so. No one has to answer to you or anyone else who disgrees with the decision because the committee has the discretion to do what they feel is best. The fact that they felt this way is enough for me and should be enough for you.

No, it absolutely should NOT be enough for everybody - under similar logic, we would never question decisions by Congress, judges, juries, police officers, and others who may do what they think is "best" to disastrous ends.

It's fine if it's enough for you, but I see no reason why it is wrong or improper to feel differently.

deepimpact2 · #15 10-12-2009, 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

No, it absolutely should NOT be enough for everybody - under similar logic, we would never question decisions by Congress, judges, juries, police officers, and others who may do what they think is "best" to disastrous ends.

It's fine if it's enough for you, but I see no reason why it is wrong or improper to feel differently.

The difference is that a foreign country is "in charge of" this award. I certainly do question things...when the US is "in charge of" it. I'm not arrogant enough to tell folks in a foreign country what they should or should not do. That attitude is why other countries have so much hatred towards the US anyway. Instead I leave my questioning for things that occur HERE.