Gun toting mom found dead

Kevin · #1 10-09-2009, 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

When you say "you folks" who are you referring to exactly? I almost get the impression that I'M included in that statement.

Oh shut the hell up.

Really though... attitudes are different in the northeast with regard to concealed weapons. Look at the laws. I don't know whether you're in the NE or not. If you are, then yes, I'm referring to you. If not, then no. It really isn't too difficult to divine the meaning of what I said.

deepimpact2 · #2 10-09-2009, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh shut the hell up.

Really though... attitudes are different in the northeast with regard to concealed weapons. Look at the laws. I don't know whether you're in the NE or not. If you are, then yes, I'm referring to you. If not, then no. It really isn't too difficult to divine the meaning of what I said.

You didn't need to use the word "you" because that implies that you think I am included in your ideas about how people who live in the northeast feel about guns. You don't actually KNOW my feelings about guns so don't lump me in that group.

Kevin · #3 10-09-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You didn't need to use the word "you" because that implies that you think I am included in your ideas about how people who live in the northeast feel about guns. You don't actually KNOW my feelings about guns so don't lump me in that group.

Darlin', I wasn't even replying to you. The internet is not about you.

deepimpact2 · #4 10-09-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Darlin', I wasn't even replying to you. The internet is not about you.

Then don't say "you" northeasterners.

It really is that simple.

KSig RC · #5 10-09-2009, 06:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You didn't need to use the word "you" because that implies that you think I am included in your ideas about how people who live in the northeast feel about guns. You don't actually KNOW my feelings about guns so don't lump me in that group.

The phrase "you folks in the Northeast" is perfectly correct from a grammar standpoint, and is non-inclusive either by connotation or denotation. Taking offense to it is silly.

Even if you assume it to be a generalized majority (which seems fair), you have to lump yourself into that majority group to get anywhere near the level you're aiming for.

deepimpact2 · #6 10-09-2009, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

The phrase "you folks in the Northeast" is perfectly correct from a grammar standpoint, and is non-inclusive either by connotation or denotation. Taking offense to it is silly.

Um and that would be wrong. He could have easily said, "people in the northeast..." You know that. But because you are just determined to be on the opposite of whatever I am saying, you are trying to find a way to make what he said okay.

KSig RC · #7 10-10-2009, 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

Um and that would be wrong. He could have easily said, "people in the northeast..." You know that. But because you are just determined to be on the opposite of whatever I am saying, you are trying to find a way to make what he said okay.

I know that, and I agree that would have solved all of these issues. But that doesn't make him wrong.

Indeed, I thought you were from the west coast until this thread - I have literally no idea where you're from. I don't disagree with you because of some innate characteristic you have - that's a great example of the Fundamental Attribution Error. We come from different angles, but I think you'd be surprised that I'm a devout Libertarian, etc.

I don't hate you- I bet we'd get along in person and have interesting conversations. But I'm really not ready to cede the word "you" in a connotation sense, unless it's clearly a racial issue (the only way I've ever seen "you" be a problem in the past).

DrPhil · #8 10-10-2009, 07:22 AM

All of this over a damn "you Northeasterners?"

Shit....

deepimpact2 · #9 10-10-2009, 08:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

I know that, and I agree that would have solved all of these issues. But that doesn't make him wrong.

Indeed, I thought you were from the west coast until this thread - I have literally no idea where you're from. I don't disagree with you because of some innate characteristic you have - that's a great example of the Fundamental Attribution Error. We come from different angles, but I think you'd be surprised that I'm a devout Libertarian, etc.

I don't hate you- I bet we'd get along in person and have interesting conversations. But I'm really not ready to cede the word "you" in a connotation sense, unless it's clearly a racial issue (the only way I've ever seen "you" be a problem in the past).

You thought I was from the west coast? Why is that? (And I'm not being combative, I just think that's funny)

We probably would get along in person. I agree.

But the word "you" doesn't have to be used in a racial context in order to be offensive. Because I am a gun owner and carrier, I don't like to be lumped in with those who are so strongly opposed.

As far as finding "you" offensive in this type of context in which Kevin put it, that attitude would probably carry over in a multitude of situations. For example, if someone said, "you people in the South supporting Palin are crazy." Someone who lives in the South and is extremely opposed to Palin would most definitely take offense to that, and that would be completely understandable.

AlphaFrog · #10 10-10-2009, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

As far as finding "you" offensive in this type of context in which Kevin put it, that attitude would probably carry over in a multitude of situations. For example, if someone said, "you people in the South supporting Palin are crazy." Someone who lives in the South and is extremely opposed to Palin would most definitely take offense to that, and that would be completely understandable.

I think we need a little lesson in subject-predicate.

In your example "You people in the south supporting Palin" is the subject.
"are crazy" is the predicate. If the subject doesn't apply - in this case if you live in the South, but don't support Palin or if you support Palin, but don't live in the South - then the predicate doesn't apply. No offense necessary.

KSigkid · #11 10-10-2009, 11:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

You thought I was from the west coast? Why is that? (And I'm not being combative, I just think that's funny)

We probably would get along in person. I agree.

But the word "you" doesn't have to be used in a racial context in order to be offensive. Because I am a gun owner and carrier, I don't like to be lumped in with those who are so strongly opposed.

As far as finding "you" offensive in this type of context in which Kevin put it, that attitude would probably carry over in a multitude of situations. For example, if someone said, "you people in the South supporting Palin are crazy." Someone who lives in the South and is extremely opposed to Palin would most definitely take offense to that, and that would be completely understandable.

I'll agree people can be fiercely defensive of where they're from (there are a number of threads on GC that prove that fact). And, I think there's some importance to what is attached to the "you people" statement.

As an example, if someone said "You people in the Northeast supporting Palin," I would be a bit offended, as I can't stand Palin

I hope you see my point, though, that (to me) the context of the "you people" is important. In my mind, Kevin's statement isn't all that offensive, if only because my area of New England (both where I grew up and where I went to school) is pretty weird about the gun control issue. For example, you'd get some odd looks in Boston if you said that you were carrying on a random weekday.

As an aside, I don't know if anyone is "determined" to be on the other side of you in a situation. Personally, I don't agree with some of your posts, but I respond mostly because you're willing to debate the issue. That's not me trying to be combative with you or intentionally contrary - it's just me being honest and engaging in debate.

I agree with RC - the three of us would probably have some pretty interesting conversations if we actually met in real life.

deepimpact2 · #12 10-10-2009, 09:58 AM

I completely missed the part about her chatting with her friend via webcam when she was shot. I can't imagine what her friend must be going through to have seen that...

DaemonSeid · #13 10-09-2009, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh shut the hell up.

Really though... attitudes are different in the northeast with regard to concealed weapons. Look at the laws. I don't know whether you're in the NE or not. If you are, then yes, I'm referring to you. If not, then no. It really isn't too difficult to divine the meaning of what I said.

DI2....I actually get the gist of what he is saying (and Kevin correct me if I am wrong) but most of us middle to north easterners live in or near large urban areas where guns are already enough of a problem and we (regardless of racial or social backgrounds) have no real need to perpetuate the problem BY CARRYING a gun also, which is why, IMO it's lost on me that Oklahomans have a need to carry a gun to a soccer game if it's just the norm.

deepimpact2 · #14 10-09-2009, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

DI2....I actually get the gist of what he is saying (and Kevin correct me if I am wrong) but most of us middle to north easterners live in or near large urban areas where guns are already enough of a problem and we (regardless of racial or social backgrounds) have no real need to perpetuate the problem BY CARRYING a gun also, which is why, IMO it's lost on me that Oklahomans have a need to carry a gun to a soccer game if it's just the norm.

I know what YOU mean DS, but his choice of words was very poor. And he is making too many assumptions out of nowhere. I don't even know how he decided that "us" northeasterners feel any sort of way when no one had actually made any substantive comments prior to his post. I posted the story, Dr. Phil said it was ironic. I'm still trying to figure out how we got to "us" northeasterners and "our" attitude about guns. I mean. at that point, what northeasterners had actually SAID anything about how they felt about guns?

DaemonSeid · #15 10-09-2009, 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deepimpact2

I know what YOU mean DS, but his choice of words was very poor. And he is making too many assumptions out of nowhere. I don't even know how he decided that "us" northeasterners feel any sort of way when no one had actually made any substantive comments prior to his post. I posted the story, Dr. Phil said it was ironic. I'm still trying to figure out how we got to "us" northeasterners and "our" attitude about guns. I mean. at that point, what northeasterners had actually SAID anything about how they felt about guns?

I disagree.

I think that if I asked enough folks across the different strata they may also find what Oklahomans do a bit different.