No place for average PNMs?

UGAalum94 · #1 09-05-2009, 11:20 PM

I think there are places for average PNMs but "average" isn't where a lot of us on the outside really think it is. Grade inflation and higher admission standards at some schools make a GPA that used to seem awesome only average and a list of activities that used to be dazzling only average.

So a girl who used to be average in GPA and activities is now actually below average for the campus but alumnae and parents may not realize it. And this is without getting in to how a PNMs reputation might not be "average" and adults might not know it.

I don't quite look at things like Baci does. I think looks are a component and will help a girl a lot if the other factors are all in place, but at my campus a girl who was "only" good looking probably would have been looking at middle chapters on down. For top chapters, you apparently needed looks, activities, GPA, awesome personality, and often a certain kind of family background. Sometime even average looking girls who were excellent people ended up in top chapters.

As far as the OP, once you take the aspect of grade and credential inflation out of the picture, I think the majority of girls getting bids are "average" for the campus. When I look at the girls I know who rush at UGA and Auburn, what separates out the PNMs who end up at top chapters from mid and low tier chapters ultimately comes down to high school popularity. I think it's mainly that the girls who are already at college want the most popular girls from their high schools but it may also be that the really popular girls know how to turn it out in social situations like rush.

AGDee · #2 09-06-2009, 12:49 AM

I would think some of this may have to do with who the PNM cuts early in her recruitment too. If there are 14 chapters and they have to go from 14-10-7-3, for example, it's possible that for second parties, 2 top chapters dropped the PNM and the PNM dropped the bottom 2 chapters to go to 10 parties. The next cuts, perhaps 2 more of the top chapters drop the PNM and the PNM drops the bottom 1, getting the middle 7 parties to attend. It's possible THEN that those middle 7, having to make major cuts before Pref would all cut the PNM. Therefore, there could have been 3 chapters that might have really liked and wanted her, but she cut them early on.

It's also possible that she lacked enthusiasm for those bottom chapters and the chapters could tell. You don't really want someone who doesn't want you, no matter how small you are.

UGAalum94 · #3 09-06-2009, 01:00 AM

AGDee, what you describe is certainly possible and I think Carnation has observed that pattern in real life when she's talked about how it's actually better to get hard after first round than second, for those reasons.

But I'm still kind of skeptical like other people earlier in the thread. The number of girls completely cut out or dropped from recruitment is so small at the places it gets reported.

Your hypothetical scenario requires seven chapters to almost be at an even place in RFM or just that she be the most unlucky girl in the world to miss the bid list at every one but not get released earlier from some of the seven.

I think that some girls may truly "slip thorough the cracks" and get dropped even though there's nothing wrong with them, but I think it's far more likely that the majority of "average" PNMs get placed.

jamalter · #4 09-06-2009, 09:36 AM

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

sassygal · #5 09-06-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

I thought your response was refreshing to read. I always tell folks that going through recruitment is like a job interview. Your interviewing the Chapters just as much as they are interviewing you. It is a mutual selection process. Thanks for sharing your daughters story.

Cloudburst2000 · #6 11-24-2015, 11:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jamalter

This is an interesting thread for a mom of a PNM at Alabama, who is trying very hard to understand the whole process. I've never been involved with greek life, and my daughter certainly was not "prepared" like I'm reading so many were. This leads me to my thoughts on why my daughter had such an easy time with the process as opposed to some very sad stories that I've read in GC, and may serve as advice to other PNMs trying to understand how to be successful.

My daughter really is "average" at least compared to some I've read about on here. She had a 3.3 GPA, was captain of her volleyball team, had a few minor clubs/organizations that she was involved in (no leadership roles however), and went to a small private school where her rank was right in the middle. She is cute, but not drop dead gorgeous. She didn't take recs seriously, and had recs for less than half the houses. In fact, up until about a week before rush, she was undecided if she was going to go through with it. But at Bama, if you rush, you move in a week early, and this sounded good to her, so she started the process. She had no idea about the different houses and therefore, had a completely open mind going in. I think this is what differentiated her. She pretty much enjoyed every house she visited, maximized all her options every step of the way, and in the end went to the max of 3 pref parties and loved them all.

Had I read GC prior to this process, I would have told her not to bother - she would never make the cut. Bama is too competitive and she wouldn't stand a chance. So why do I think she was sucessful? Because she was relaxed, open minded and never stressed about not making the cut at this house or the other. And that's what I would stress to all new PNMs.

Having said this, no offense, but I still think the process is bizarre.

I know this post is older, but this was pretty much my experience going through rush. I had good grades (was third in my high school class) and very involved in extracurricular activities. I was an average-looking girl who most people called 'cute'.

I went to a non-Southern college where Greek life wasn't huge but there were several sororities. I was actually a legacy of two of the seven sororities as my sisters were members at different colleges. That said, I didn't know anything about the 'rankings' of the sororities going into rush so had a very open mind.

At my school, the sorority 'rankings' were:

Top Tier
Skittles (legacy)
Snickers
Sugar Babies

Mid-tier
Milkyway

Bottom tier
Butterfinger (legacy)
Starburst
Jolly Ranchers

After the first round of parties, my rankings were:
Milkway (mid-tier)*
Starburst (bottom-tier)*
Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)*
Jolly Ranchers (bottom-tier)**
Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy)**
Snickers (top-tier)***
Sugar Babies (top-tier)***

Sororities with one star were the ones I really liked after the first round. I liked them pretty equally at this point. The sororities with two stars I didn't dislike but they didn't make much of an impression during the first round of parties. The two with three stars were the sororities that I did not like. I did not like the girls I talked to at these two parties. One of the sororities had me talk to a girl I knew from high school who I had never cared for and the other sorority only asked about my parents jobs, how much money we had, etc which was a huge turn-off.

For the second round of parties, you could go to a maximum of five which was fine by me. I went to the five sororities that I ranked as my top five. I did not go back to the two top-tier sororities that I didn't like during the first round of parties.

After the second round of parties, my rankings were:

Milkway (mid-tier)*
Starburst (bottom-tier)*
Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)**
Jolly Ranchers (bottom-tier)***
Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy)****

The two sororities with one star were tied for first place. I liked them pretty equally. The sorority with two stars I still really liked but not quite as much as the first two. The sorority with three stars again I did not dislike, the girls were fine but their party was kind of boring and the girl I talked to wasn't a great conversationalist, but I did not dislike them and would have gone to their preference had I not gotten invites to my top three. The lone sorority with four stars made a poor impression. I think they were trying to overdo it since I was a legacy, but I had girls hanging all over me and crying in my hair. It was majorly awkward and pretty creepy. They also came across as super fake. I phoned my sister and said I was dropping her sorority and hoped she wasn't offended. She told me not to worry because she would never have joined this sorority if she had gone to school here. Her chapter had done some sisterhood events with this chapter and my sister didn't care for them...whew!

So for preference, you could go back to a max of three sororities, I went back to my top three choices...one 'top-tier', one 'mid-tier', and one 'bottom-tier'. I still knew nothing about the rankings and wouldn't participate in the gossip about it because I wanted to join where I felt most comfortable regardless of their ranking.

After preference, when filling out my bid card, it went like this:

1. Starburst (bottom-tier)
2. Milkyway (mid-tier)
3. Skittles (top-tier)(legacy)

And I got my first choice. I had so many people ask why I didn't list Skittles as my first since I would likely get a bid as a legacy and they were the 'top' sorority on campus and 'Don't you want to be in the best sorority???' I was like 'I AM in the BEST sorority for ME'. I never regretted my decision to join a 'bottom-tier' sorority even though I had other options.

After spending five years on campus, I can honestly say I likely would have been happy in any of the sororities with the exceptions of Snickers (top-tier) and Butterfinger (bottom-tier)(legacy). The girls in Snickers were very superficial and I was honestly never really friends with any of them. They were probably the most clique-y group on campus. Butterfinger was apparently the trouble-maker sorority on campus and I was right when I thought they acted very fake during the second round of parties. Glad I followed my gut and didn't feel the need to go their preference simply because I was a legacy. I would have hated being in that sorority. And this would have knocked out one of my preferred sororities out of the running for preference parties. Anyhoo, I know I didn't like Sugar Babies during rush but I did end up having several friends from this sorority so first impressions are not always correct! I still don't think they would have been the best match for me so I am not sorry I dropped them but they turned out to be fine (though I still couldn't stand that one girl from my high school).

Like I said I had several friends in every sorority (with the exception of Snickers and Butterfinger), and could have been happy in any of those five. However, my 'bottom-tier' sorority was the best fit for me and I never regretted it. The rankings are pretty dumb IMO. I know one of the sororities was ranked high by the frats because they 'put out' and on was ranked high pretty much because they had the biggest house so be wary of rankings. They might be ranked higher for not the best reasons. Who cares who has the biggest house if the girls who live there aren't the best? IMO, forget about rankings when you start rush and don't participate in gossip about which houses are ranked the best. Join the sorority that YOU feel most comfortable at, not where other people think you should join. These are the girls who you will be spending the next 4+ years with so make the decision that it best for YOU. Going into rush with no pre-conceived notions is the best thing to do, IMHO.