The Medical Thread

[Zephyrus]

I'm just curious to know what everybody does on here. BigRedBeta, I think I read that you're about to be a pediatrician, but I was curious to know what AKA Monet does for a living. Cheefulgreek, what is your specialty that you were referring to? kstar you're also a vet too. Correct?

Also thanks for answering my earlier questions. I still don't see why medical help should cost. I understand how it may have worked during WWII but now times have changed.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

but I was curious to know what AKA Monet does for a living.

I hold a PhD in molecular genetics. I have published several scientific articles in cardiovascular disease, diabetes and aging. My last laboratory position was in hematology, specifically sickle cell anemia in rodent animal models.

I became utterly disgusted and I chose to "jump ship" to gain more clinical experiences by pursuing my entrepreneurial spirit in mental health and wellness. I also am studying to become a health and wellness coach. I am also gearing up for palliative care by volunteering at a local Hospice under grief and bereavement for a year or more. I do not have a verifiable "clinical training" that certain people think one must have in my area, although I have been a dental assistant well over 20 years. But whatever, go figure... Oh well, whatever! I am thoroughly enjoying my current pursuits and am glad that I have found my passion, which some astute people actually see...

PM me if you want to know more and you can visit our individual pages.

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I hold a PhD in molecular genetics. I have published several scientific articles in cardiovascular disease, diabetes and aging. My last laboratory position was in hematology, specifically sickle cell anemia in rodent animal models.

I became utterly disgusted and I chose to "jump ship" to gain more clinical experiences by pursuing my entrepreneurial spirit in mental health and wellness. I also am studying to become a health and wellness coach. I am also gearing up for palliative care by volunteering at a local Hospice under grief and bereavement for a year or more. I do not have a verifiable "clinical training" that certain people think one must have in my area, although I have been a dental assistant well over 20 years. But whatever, go figure... Oh well, whatever! I am thoroughly enjoying my current pursuits and am glad that I have found my passion, which some astute people actually see...

PM me if you want to know more and you can visit our individual pages.

Interesting. I sat out of school for awhile and eventually I'm going back. However, I have been thinking about going into the medical field. I was a biology major when I was in school, my first year. I got married young, sat out and now I'm divorced. I'm not sure if I'm cut out to be a dr. so I may pursue a degree in music. The question I have, is it possible to change career paths once you're already in your career? Would I have to start over, or would some of the credits transfer in? You've done a lot but it's all related to medicine, or something biological. I'm just trying to see if it's possibe to change over.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

Interesting. I sat out of school for awhile and eventually I'm going back. However, I have been thinking about going into the medical field. I was a biology major when I was in school, my first year. I got married young, sat out and now I'm divorced. I'm not sure if I'm cut out to be a dr. so I may pursue a degree in music. The question I have, is it possible to change career paths once you're already in your career? Would I have to start over, or would some of the credits transfer in? You've done a lot but it's all related to medicine, or something biological. I'm just trying to see if it's possibe to change over.

Well, for me I did this "switching" after I got my Bachelor's. If you do want to become a physician, you have to have that goal in mind. Meaning, I don't know too many folks who switch around a lot when they want to be a clinician...

Now, I know quite a few physicians who were NOT biology majors--while most med students are bio majors, I do know chem, physics, engineering and English majors who have gotten into med school. There were compendium courses that HAVE to taken just to get a decent score on the MCAT. But, that can be done after graduation.

The other issue is admissions for Med schools generally do not accept anyone who wants to switch mid-stream. I mean, I have heard they really vet out to make sure someone wants to go to medical school--because education is that rigorous and there is an expectation that the student eventually will serve as a physician in their desired area. That is what most of these physicians are discussing in this Thread...

Grad school, depends on what you want your PhD in. You cannot get into a English Literature program and do DNA genotyping on mouse tissue. You'd have to justify that to your committee... What you are trying achieve in your PhD program is the question you must ask yourself?

If you are only seeking a Bachelor's, your best bet is to speak to your counselors, professors, etc. on your college campus.

Once you get your degree, then it is all on you...

I guess for my story, people switch careers all the time. I just realized my area of expertise is a strong "tournament market"--only the best wins, rather than another marketing system or merit system. Medical doctors do not undergo a "tournament market" system like biomedical research because they still treat human patients no matter what the numbers are of who they see--basically, as long as they are there, they get paid by insurance, etc. Whereas, all the money that comes in for biomed research are from grants: NIH, big pharma, state gov, DOD, etc. Only if the physician is a scientist does he/she undergo all of this. Most physicians I know are also MPH's, and some do global health. PhD researchers in biomed, are pretty much jacked because all the businesses want an MD/PhD combo... Since there are fewer MD/PhD combos with US degrees--due to the length of education--the businesses often get these "highly trained" people from foreign countries. The biggest "exporter" being China. And most of them are on H-1B visas. A lot of people are very angry about that... IDK how I feel, because basically this whole thing is probably driven by greed due to biomed being a "tournament market"... I do have references from which I speak, I am not making it up...

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Well, for me I did this "switching" after I got my Bachelor's. If you do want to become a physician, you have to have that goal in mind. Meaning, I don't know too many folks who switch around a lot when they want to be a clinician...

Now, I know quite a few physicians who were NOT biology majors--while most med students are bio majors, I do know chem, physics, engineering and English majors who have gotten into med school. There were compendium courses that HAVE to taken just to get a decent score on the MCAT. But, that can be done after graduation.

The other issue is admissions for Med schools generally do not accept anyone who wants to switch mid-stream. I mean, I have heard they really vet out to make sure someone wants to go to medical school--because education is that rigorous and there is an expectation that the student eventually will serve as a physician in their desired area. That is what most of these physicians are discussing in this Thread...

Grad school, depends on what you want your PhD in. You cannot get into a English Literature program and do DNA genotyping on mouse tissue. You'd have to justify that to your committee... What you are trying achieve in your PhD program is the question you must ask yourself?

If you are only seeking a Bachelor's, your best bet is to speak to your counselors, professors, etc. on your college campus.

Once you get your degree, then it is all on you...

I guess for my story, people switch careers all the time. I just realized my area of expertise is a strong "tournament market"--only the best wins, rather than another marketing system or merit system. Medical doctors do not undergo a "tournament market" system like biomedical research because they still treat human patients no matter what the numbers are of who they see--basically, as long as they are there, they get paid by insurance, etc. Whereas, all the money that comes in for biomed research are from grants: NIH, big pharma, state gov, DOD, etc. Only if the physician is a scientist does he/she undergo all of this. Most physicians I know are also MPH's, and some do global health. PhD researchers in biomed, are pretty much jacked because all the businesses want an MD/PhD combo... Since there are fewer MD/PhD combos with US degrees--due to the length of education--the businesses often get these "highly trained" people from foreign countries. The biggest "exporter" being China. And most of them are on H-1B visas. A lot of people are very angry about that... IDK how I feel, because basically this whole thing is probably driven by greed due to biomed being a "tournament market"... I do have references from which I speak, I am not making it up...

What did you get your bachelors in? To be quite honest, it would be something I would pursue, because of the pay. With a BA degree, it's almost hit or miss. My plan is to try music, but if I can't make a career out of it, then I would like to know that I can make the switch to medicine. I wait tables right now, while I'm not in school, but some of the people I work with have degrees that I've never even heard of. I wouldn't want to complete 4 years of college as a music major, just to see myself waiting tables. At least I know as a dr. I would have a decent well paid career. You mentioned some med schools would not accept someone who makes the switch, but my question is, are there some that would? Some of the majors you mentioned, were not way out there type of majors though. Physics, engineering, and English, I could see all of those being needed and used in any type of medical field. But a music major? That's the question I have. I've heard of some of the biotech companies too. I could also see the above majors you mentioned getting a career started with a biotech company. I think I would be taking a chance. I just want to be able to try music, see how well I do, see where I end up and if it doesn't work out, I would like to know with hard work that I would be able to make the switch.

[BigRedBeta]

Yes, I'm going to be starting my pediatrics residency in the summer - don't know where yet. That will be revealed on March 19th. I eventually want to do a fellowship (more training after residency) in Pediatric Critical Care Medicine and then take care of children in Pediatric Intensive Care Units.

As for med school questions you've raised.

You can have any major. My Bachelor's is in Sociology, and I have friends with history, political science, and - yes - even music. Medical school is what teaches you to be a physician, so really, undergrad is prove that you can do it to the admissions committees. As long as you've taken the required pre-med courses (1 year of bio, chem, organic chem, physics), take the MCAT, and are involved on campus and in the community, you can apply. Your major doesn't have be directly applicable, and many schools like variety in their students. You might actually find that your musical training gives you some sort of unique perspective towards the emotional side of medicine...

The other thing is that, there are a significant number of people who go back to medical school years after starting another profession. It's not easy, as they need to do all the things that other 'pre-meds' need to do to gain admission. I know individuals that in their previous lives were teachers, nurses, pharmacists, bankers, physician's assistants, and engineers.

Please don't focus on the money that physicians make. Yes, it's a well paid career, but it's an extremely long time period that goes into reaching that salary. 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-7 years of residency and fellowship working 80 hours a week while only earning about $48k a year (The highest salary I was offered for next year was $50000 even, with three weeks of vacation - if I were to work the maximum allowed of 80 hours a week that ends up being $12.75/hr...and none of my other programs pay that much). Add to the fact that the average medical student has more than $140,000 in debt upon graduating medical school. Financially, this is not the smartest option for a career.

Also, remember there are other health related careers available - Physician's assistants, nursing (advanced practice nurses like nurse anesthetists can make ridiculously high salaries in some locations - higher than many physicians...and they get to continue to work as a nurse while going to anesthetist school), and many others. If you're really concerned about the applicability of a music degree, maybe being a recreational therapist or child life specialist would be good fits. These are great examples of how healing is so much an art than just a science.

[Zephyrus]

Thanks a lot for this man. That's all I needed to hear. After you're done with your residency program, then you would make enough money to pay off your debt, right? The $12.75 an hour is before you're an actually fully trained dr. Correct? I know I shouldn't do it for the cash, but I couldn't see how I would be able to pay my student loans back waiting tables. When you said invovlement on campus, what if I graduate, find out music isn't what it's cut out to be, work for a few years, then decide I want to pursue medicine? How would they determine how much I was involved on campus? Would that still apply to me?

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

What did you get your bachelors in? To be quite honest, it would be something I would pursue, because of the pay. With a BA degree, it's almost hit or miss. My plan is to try music, but if I can't make a career out of it, then I would like to know that I can make the switch to medicine...I wouldn't want to complete 4 years of college as a music major, just to see myself waiting tables. At least I know as a dr. I would have a decent well paid career. You mentioned some med schools would not accept someone who makes the switch, but my question is, are there some that would? ...But a music major? That's the question I have. I've heard of some of the biotech companies too. I could also see the above majors you mentioned getting a career started with a biotech company. I think I would be taking a chance. I just want to be able to try music, see how well I do, see where I end up and if it doesn't work out, I would like to know with hard work that I would be able to make the switch.

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

As long as you've taken the required pre-med courses (1 year of bio, chem, organic chem, physics), take the MCAT, and are involved on campus and in the community, you can apply. Your major doesn't have be directly applicable, and many schools like variety in their students. You might actually find that your musical training gives you some sort of unique perspective towards the emotional side of medicine...

Please don't focus on the money that physicians make. Yes, it's a well paid career, but it's an extremely long time period that goes into reaching that salary. 4 years of college, 4 years of medical school, and 3-7 years of residency and fellowship working 80 hours a week while only earning about $48k a year (The highest salary I was offered for next year was $50000 even, with three weeks of vacation - if I were to work the maximum allowed of 80 hours a week that ends up being $12.75/hr...and none of my other programs pay that much). Add to the fact that the average medical student has more than $140,000 in debt upon graduating medical school. Financially, this is not the smartest option for a career.

To reiterate what Dr. BigRedBeta said... He would know since he is a physician and I am just a research scientist with Ph.D...

About the money, IMHO, the amount of money you make no way compares to the amount information you must know and retain, and the work that you must do rapidly...

When I had a passing fancy to switch my career to become a physician, I was told by the admissions director of the medical school, someone who DOES NOT speak to ANY APPLYING students, that I needed to read and know the front pages of the top journals in medicine, chiefly JAMA, NEJM and a few others, for the 3 years...

The reason is that these journals tell you the business of medicine...

What I also found is you really need to know anatomy, a course I NEVER took during college or in grad school. While I have done all kinds of rodent anatomy and partial surgical procedures, along with ultrasound imaging, MRI, NMR and other imaging techniques on mice, the fact is, I cannot tie knots, hands are too shaky... Go figure... So, yeah, while surgery might not be my thing, I also do not like "on the spot" differentials. And you kinna have to love that when you go on rounds and reasoning through it logically is not my strong suit, IMHO.

Music eh? Why music, just asking?

It is known in the Naturopathic Doctorates (ND), that music, holistically can destress some people. Typically, westernized medicine did not touch something that did "not have a drug" attached to it... As more patients flood the overwhelmed health care system without anything wrong with them than that the patient perceives, many mainstream health systems are referring patients to alternatives, such as "Mindfulness", that inherently activates certain areas in the brain to ease, pain, smoking cessation, hypnotherapy, etc. Certain types of music, namely that which activates the Delta waves in the brain, is very healing. Think Buddhist Monks.

I think in the next few years we will see an "amalgamation" of diverse healing fields. MD's are good because if the ailment is truly an infection or a physical accident, heart attack, stroke or cancer, ICU, palliative care, etc. they can come in there and stabilize the situation, get some stuff going into a routine, then transfer. The problem I have seen and experienced IMHO, is that most healthcare providers are tapped out, they have less than 7 minutes per patient, write up some many things in charts, it is difficult, so it MUST be something you'd love to do and it cannot be about money. Because like Dr. Big said, this is a 80 hrs+++++ job... There will be times you are awake for more than some odd hours...

The other fields as long as they are not "wack jobs" or "cooky" or "snake oil salesman", if they are more about rigorous standards that is required for various other clinical providers, can be very beneficial--i.e. like accupuncture, mindfulness meditation, some homeopathic and herbal remedies, etc.

Also, I know quite a few physicians flipping over to health and wellness coaching for medical treatment adherence. As many times, I have run health forums in my city, there is that frustration I have heard from physicians about how patients fail to follow the prescribed treatment for whatever reason. Hayle, with my experiences as a dental assistant, do I have stories of patient insanity...

But, it is about providing a humane amount of health, and a dignified death. And that is the mindset you need to have when you go medicine, IMHO.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

When you said invovlement on campus, what if I graduate, find out music isn't what it's cut out to be, work for a few years, then decide I want to pursue medicine? How would they determine how much I was involved on campus? Would that still apply to me?

I know you directed this to Dr. BRB and HE is can provided you more with direct answers on med school financing.

As far as campus involvement, he means, all your extracurricular activities or community service needs to be something that would make the eyes of admissions boards widen...

You need to have volunteered, extensively, in the hospital. Not just at the "volunteers desk" or "gift shop", but if you can, carting the human urine samples around from the hospital rooms for laboratory testing at 1 AM in the morning... I know quite a few people who have done that... In fact I know a few people getting 36's on their MCATs with all that experience and STILL DO NOT get into med school... So, let me tell you, they get 1000s of applications per year for maybe 300 slots, and these days, you might be competing against Ph.D. with published Science/Nature (journals) articles in molecular cardiology, two post doctoral positions, with references from Chiefs of Medicine, Surgeon Generals and Nobel Laureates who are MD/Ph.D.'s....

That is your competition... So, what is your game plan?

The fact is you have got to know your music interests inherently--that means music theory. You need to be able to play several instruments. Then you need to apply it to your disease du Jour, i.e. kids with non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, etc. Be creative, because that is what perks up med school admins...

ETA: If you were to start a basic music program at your local children's hospital extolling the virtues of like, "Classical Music" for kids, then measure slight improvements in happiness and healing... Oh yeah, the med school admins will definitely perk up...

[BigRedBeta]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

To reiterate what Dr. BigRedBeta said... She would know since she is a physician and I am just a research scientist with Ph.D...

I'm a dude.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

I'm a dude.

I apologize...

[BigRedBeta]

AKAMonet has given a slightly gloomier picture than I think is necessary, but I think her point that there's a lot that goes into becoming a physician is what really needs to be considered. It's true, not everyone has it. And I think some of the reasons why she personally didn't go through with the change reflect that there are personality aspects that need to fit - especially in her case where she's done a lot of basic science research and to "sell" herself to a med school admissions committee would likely mean explaining her need for patient interaction and a desire that goes far enough to change from one scientific field to another. Coming from a music background - that's probably an easier sell.

The anatomy, the knot tying, the creation of differential diagnoses (what are all the possible reasons a person could have chest pain), the business of medicine stuff, those are all things that you'll learn in medical school. I don't think it's necessary for any potential med school applicant to feel like they need those things before starting.

What does matter is work ethic, perseverance and being able to interact with people. It helps if you're outgoing, naturally intelligent, and not a whiner.

As for the involvement on campus remark I made earlier. As a non-trad applicant, you'd be judged by what you've done recently - I didn't mean it say that they would look at your campus record. The bare bones essentials you'd need would be some sort of volunteering - preferably in a patient related area (though it doesn't have to be overnight, I volunteered from 10am to 1pm every Tuesday for 6 months). And you also need some sort of doctor interactions - which usually takes the form of shadowing several different ones. Basically adcoms want to see that you've spent time with patients and doctors and have at least some idea of what you're getting yourself into. Like AKA_Monet suggested though, if you did music in hospital experiences (even without any sort of formal review/research process) that could be a very powerful, very easy to sell activity.

As far as the salary and debt issues. Keep in mind it's a salary, it's not per hour wages. And that is during residency - you have those letters MD behind your name, but you're not eligible to become board certified until after you've finished your residency and in most states you cannot practice on your own until after you've completed at least one year of post-grad training (more and more completing a full residency is becoming the requirement to get your license to practice). Residents are capped at working 80 hours a week, though it's very program dependent and actually most of the time you won't be working 80 hours...but 60+ hours a week is a given. And it's just assumed that you're going to be working 6 days a week. Overnight shifts usually occur between every 4th to every 6th night - and you'll have been at the hospital since the morning already. Residents are not allowed to work more than 30 consecutive hours. Think about that: they had to put national rules in place (in 2003) to prevent working more than this. However, as many older doctors love to point out, there are no work hour limits once you're done with residency.

As far as loans go...most residents defer them until after residency, so that interest accumulates for another three to seven years. After that they'll refinance, then start paying them off...and I've had some friends in the financial field tell me it's actually a smart decision to take as long as possible to pay off that debt (not sure if I buy that idea quite yet).

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

AKAMonet has given a slightly gloomier picture than I think is necessary, but I think her point that there's a lot that goes into becoming a physician is what really needs to be considered. It's true, not everyone has it. And I think some of the reasons why she personally didn't go through with the change reflect that there are personality aspects that need to fit - especially in her case where she's done a lot of basic science research and to "sell" herself to a med school admissions committee would likely mean explaining her need for patient interaction and a desire that goes far enough to change from one scientific field to another.

What does matter is work ethic, perseverance and being able to interact with people. It helps if you're outgoing, naturally intelligent, and not a whiner.

Thanks... I am probably too much of whiner... LOL... I really dislike bulk reading in one set. I do know that is done by plenty of med students.

[Zephyrus]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

To reiterate what Dr. BigRedBeta said... He would know since he is a physician and I am just a research scientist with Ph.D...

About the money, IMHO, the amount of money you make no way compares to the amount information you must know and retain, and the work that you must do rapidly...

When I had a passing fancy to switch my career to become a physician, I was told by the admissions director of the medical school, someone who DOES NOT speak to ANY APPLYING students, that I needed to read and know the front pages of the top journals in medicine, chiefly JAMA, NEJM and a few others, for the 3 years...

The reason is that these journals tell you the business of medicine...

What I also found is you really need to know anatomy, a course I NEVER took during college or in grad school. While I have done all kinds of rodent anatomy and partial surgical procedures, along with ultrasound imaging, MRI, NMR and other imaging techniques on mice, the fact is, I cannot tie knots, hands are too shaky... Go figure... So, yeah, while surgery might not be my thing, I also do not like "on the spot" differentials. And you kinna have to love that when you go on rounds and reasoning through it logically is not my strong suit, IMHO.

Music eh? Why music, just asking?

It is known in the Naturopathic Doctorates (ND), that music, holistically can destress some people. Typically, westernized medicine did not touch something that did "not have a drug" attached to it... As more patients flood the overwhelmed health care system without anything wrong with them than that the patient perceives, many mainstream health systems are referring patients to alternatives, such as "Mindfulness", that inherently activates certain areas in the brain to ease, pain, smoking cessation, hypnotherapy, etc. Certain types of music, namely that which activates the Delta waves in the brain, is very healing. Think Buddhist Monks.

I think in the next few years we will see an "amalgamation" of diverse healing fields. MD's are good because if the ailment is truly an infection or a physical accident, heart attack, stroke or cancer, ICU, palliative care, etc. they can come in there and stabilize the situation, get some stuff going into a routine, then transfer. The problem I have seen and experienced IMHO, is that most healthcare providers are tapped out, they have less than 7 minutes per patient, write up some many things in charts, it is difficult, so it MUST be something you'd love to do and it cannot be about money. Because like Dr. Big said, this is a 80 hrs+++++ job... There will be times you are awake for more than some odd hours...

The other fields as long as they are not "wack jobs" or "cooky" or "snake oil salesman", if they are more about rigorous standards that is required for various other clinical providers, can be very beneficial--i.e. like accupuncture, mindfulness meditation, some homeopathic and herbal remedies, etc.

Also, I know quite a few physicians flipping over to health and wellness coaching for medical treatment adherence. As many times, I have run health forums in my city, there is that frustration I have heard from physicians about how patients fail to follow the prescribed treatment for whatever reason. Hayle, with my experiences as a dental assistant, do I have stories of patient insanity...

But, it is about providing a humane amount of health, and a dignified death. And that is the mindset you need to have when you go medicine, IMHO.

I chose music because it's what I'm intersted in doing for a living, if I'm successful at it. I'm only on this thread asking questions about your professions, because this would be a plan B for me if plan A (music) doesn't work out.

Think Buddhist Monk? wtf?

I see what you mean about getting involved. No, I've never worked at a hospital before, so I don't have that kind of experience.

Most of, if not all of the things you guys are talking about I'm not familiar with. I don't know any of the terminology so a lot of the things that are mentioned are completely foreign to me. I've read some of the science books and magazines you're referring to. I've heard of some of the biotech companies too. I would even consider that as an option. The bottom line is most music majors very rarely end up using their major after graduation, so I'm asking about your professions just incase. I don't think the work hours would really phase me. I've pulled double shifts where I work now, and learning the material is just something that I would have to get used to.

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I know you directed this to Dr. BRB and HE is can provided you more with direct answers on med school financing.

As far as campus involvement, he means, all your extracurricular activities or community service needs to be something that would make the eyes of admissions boards widen...

You need to have volunteered, extensively, in the hospital. Not just at the "volunteers desk" or "gift shop", but if you can, carting the human urine samples around from the hospital rooms for laboratory testing at 1 AM in the morning... I know quite a few people who have done that... In fact I know a few people getting 36's on their MCATs with all that experience and STILL DO NOT get into med school... So, let me tell you, they get 1000s of applications per year for maybe 300 slots, and these days, you might be competing against Ph.D. with published Science/Nature (journals) articles in molecular cardiology, two post doctoral positions, with references from Chiefs of Medicine, Surgeon Generals and Nobel Laureates who are MD/Ph.D.'s....

That is your competition... So, what is your game plan?

The fact is you have got to know your music interests inherently--that means music theory. You need to be able to play several instruments. Then you need to apply it to your disease du Jour, i.e. kids with non-Hodgkin's Lymphoma, etc. Be creative, because that is what perks up med school admins...

I don't have a game plan as of yet. I'm still going to concentrate on music and I'll just go from there. What does music have to do with the study of medicine? You're telling me I would have to apply my music to my disease du jour??? Is this some kind joke? Yeah, I feel pretty dumb asking a message board about medical school, but I'm serious, the thread is here, and you guys are real people in the field so why not ask? I'm sure it is tough to get in, but sht happens. I'm sure there are a lot of people that got in that didn't think they would get in with very little experience to go with it.

Originally Posted by BigRedBeta

AKAMonet has given a slightly gloomier picture than I think is necessary, but I think her point that there's a lot that goes into becoming a physician is what really needs to be considered. It's true, not everyone has it. And I think some of the reasons why she personally didn't go through with the change reflect that there are personality aspects that need to fit - especially in her case where she's done a lot of basic science research and to "sell" herself to a med school admissions committee would likely mean explaining her need for patient interaction and a desire that goes far enough to change from one scientific field to another. Coming from a music background - that's probably an easier sell.

The anatomy, the knot tying, the creation of differential diagnoses (what are all the possible reasons a person could have chest pain), the business of medicine stuff, those are all things that you'll learn in medical school. I don't think it's necessary for any potential med school applicant to feel like they need those things before starting.

What does matter is work ethic, perseverance and being able to interact with people. It helps if you're outgoing, naturally intelligent, and not a whiner.

As for the involvement on campus remark I made earlier. As a non-trad applicant, you'd be judged by what you've done recently - I didn't mean it say that they would look at your campus record. The bare bones essentials you'd need would be some sort of volunteering - preferably in a patient related area (though it doesn't have to be overnight, I volunteered from 10am to 1pm every Tuesday for 6 months). And you also need some sort of doctor interactions - which usually takes the form of shadowing several different ones. Basically adcoms want to see that you've spent time with patients and doctors and have at least some idea of what you're getting yourself into. Like AKA_Monet suggested though, if you did music in hospital experiences (even without any sort of formal review/research process) that could be a very powerful, very easy to sell activity.

As far as the salary and debt issues. Keep in mind it's a salary, it's not per hour wages. And that is during residency - you have those letters MD behind your name, but you're not eligible to become board certified until after you've finished your residency and in most states you cannot practice on your own until after you've completed at least one year of post-grad training (more and more completing a full residency is becoming the requirement to get your license to practice). Residents are capped at working 80 hours a week, though it's very program dependent and actually most of the time you won't be working 80 hours...but 60+ hours a week is a given. And it's just assumed that you're going to be working 6 days a week. Overnight shifts usually occur between every 4th to every 6th night - and you'll have been at the hospital since the morning already. Residents are not allowed to work more than 30 consecutive hours. Think about that: they had to put national rules in place (in 2003) to prevent working more than this. However, as many older doctors love to point out, there are no work hour limits once you're done with residency.

As far as loans go...most residents defer them until after residency, so that interest accumulates for another three to seven years. After that they'll refinance, then start paying them off...and I've had some friends in the financial field tell me it's actually a smart decision to take as long as possible to pay off that debt (not sure if I buy that idea quite yet).

I appreciate the info. I'll keep this in mind. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I think I'm naturally intelligent to some degree. If the study of music doesn't work out for me, it may not necessarily be the medical field as an option. I would even look at some of the biotech companies I read about. I would simply be looking for a way out of dead end jobs, which a lot of music majors end up doing if they don't make it in the music industry.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Zephyrus

I appreciate the info. I'll keep this in mind. I'm not the smartest guy in the world, but I think I'm naturally intelligent to some degree. If the study of music doesn't work out for me, it may not necessarily be the medical field as an option. I would even look at some of the biotech companies I read about. I would simply be looking for a way out of dead end jobs, which a lot of music majors end up doing if they don't make it in the music industry.

I'm not a med student, so I'll leave the nuts and bolts to the MDs (like AOPi Angel) and MDs to be like BigRedBeta.

That said, I don't know that "looking for a way out of dead end jobs" is necessarily the best reason to go to medical school. It's the most intense schooling program out there, and it exhausts even those who are passionate about becoming doctors.
I personally wouldn't go for it unless I was absolutely, positively, 110% sure I wanted to be an MD.