After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[Splash]

SWTXBelle & Carnation -

Is there even a point for rush then for those chapters/campuses?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Splash

SWTXBelle & Carnation -

Is there even a point for rush then for those chapters/campuses?

If you are real, you need to get off the bitter bus and be happy with the chapter you are in and quit wishing for things that would never have happened, and blaming it on the Greek system. IF you are real.

However, I doubt that's the case.

[SWTXBelle]

Originally Posted by Splash

SWTXBelle & Carnation -

Is there even a point for rush then for those chapters/campuses?

Yes, because not ALL the chapters do it, and preferred pnms will decide not to pursue certain houses. BUT - 33girl is absolutely correct. A pnm might not be able to get the top-tier house she thinks she wants, but there are opportunities for other great chapters to offer her a home, thanks to the new release figure formula.

[carnation]

On certain big campuses, several of the older sororities have pretty much interchangeable members, despite what people say about 'finding your best fit' and they're all looking at the same group of a couple hundred outstanding girls. Say there are 1600 PNMs--6 groups might have their eye on the same 200-300 girls because no one knows for sure which way the girls will go. I've actually seen lists--let's say, a sorority thinks that quota will be 50 and here are their top 50 girls but because they know that every sorority gets cuts, they have a runner-up list. No, I'm not talking about my own sorority, I haven't seen any Pi Phi lists because I'm too far from alum groups or chapters. I have seen lists for at least 6 other groups.

Whether or not these campuses have pre-recruitment parties in the spring or summer, these groups already have their eye out for certain girls. Most of them they know very well. I know of one SEC sorority that has alums looking out for 'the best girls from the small towns' in their state and that's mainly who they pursue. Others may have other types of girls they're looking for but when invite lists come out, it's pretty obvious that many sororities have the same list of desired PNMs, mainly your stellar girls with great service and grades and activities and looks. Many sorority members have a Wall of Fame inside where the members hang up posters with pictures and details about their PNM favorites, urging others to vote for them.

It'd be nice if there could be a second round of no-cut parties so sororities could get to know girls better and that happens at some medium-sized to smaller schools but face it, when you're dealing with hundreds of girls you conduct it the best you can. I don't have any suggestions for how to do it better...the numbers are just too big.

AXOrushadvisor, you're probably right about exclusivity. So much of the PNM talk before recruitment on certain campuses isn't "Will I get a bid?" but "Will I manage to get a bid from certain groups?" That's no different from what it was like 30-40 years ago but your chances were better to get in your desired group back than because quotas were determined sooner and thus quota was bigger.

You know what? I think that in a way, sororities are reaping what they sowed back then. If 8 sororities took classes of 60 each and the other 4 took only 25 each, the new members were happier then because they got (one of) their choice groups. However, their daughters are paying the price because with so many legacies of certain groups on certain campuses, the daughters aren't making it into their legacy groups.

[SWTXBelle]

I can speak from experience - even chapters at non-SEC schools have their eyes on certain pnms, and have alumnae working with them to get recs, etc. You'd be surprised at some of the "non-competitive" campuses where chapters have their lists of favoured pnms before recruitment starts.

[KSUViolet06]

That would never fly today.

I can picture the Entitlement Queen pitching a Veruca-esque fit when 2 invites show up in her mailbox, as opposed to her friends getting like 12.

Or moms spending their daughter's entire senior year basically trying to figure out how you get an invite from The Best Chapter.

Did this work out well for everyone, numbers-wise?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

That would never fly today.
I can picture the Entitlement Queen pitching a Veruca-esque fit when 2 invites show up in her mailbox, as opposed to her friends getting like 12. Or moms spending their daughter's entire senior year basically trying to figure out how you get an invite from The Best Chapter.

Having been born and bred in Texas, I think that no amount of desperate maneuvers (maternal or otherwise) would have snagged an invitation to certain houses. Either the PNM had "it" or she didn't.

[ASTalumna06]

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

I was in a very small chapter. While I was active, we never had more than 19 girls. We were all VERY busy. Our chapter website (which hasn't been updated in forever) still has the roster and positions of the active sisters in 2006. Looking over the list, I started to remember how much we really had to do. Girls were holding 1-5 positions a piece. One sister held, over the course of one year: Vice President, Treasurer, Publicity, Alternate Panhellenic Delegate, and Pageant Chair.

But we were all very close. We struggled, but we all worked together to survive. Our chapter actually received many awards at Convention (including the highest one a chapter can receive) and it was the most rewarding experience.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

[ForeverRoses]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

I was in a very small chapter. While I was active, we never had more than 19 girls. We were all VERY busy. Our chapter website (which hasn't been updated in forever) still has the roster and positions of the active sisters in 2006. Looking over the list, I started to remember how much we really had to do. Girls were holding 1-5 positions a piece. One sister held, over the course of one year: Vice President, Treasurer, Publicity, Alternate Panhellenic Delegate, and Pageant Chair.

But we were all very close. We struggled, but we all worked together to survive. Our chapter actually received many awards at Convention (including the highest one a chapter can receive) and it was the most rewarding experience.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

My chapter had ~ 150 members and we didn't have a problem with seniors dropping out. We did have a problem with seniors that PAID but didn't show up for much. And I can honestly say I was one of them. I didn't go back for spirit week (the work week before school & rush starts) because I had a "real" job in an office and couldn't afford to leave a week early. Then I was gone winter quarter because I was doing an internship at a TV station 2 hours from school. When I got back for spring quarter (my final quarter) I had so many life decisions to make that I really didn't think I had time for sorority stuff. Do I regret it? Yes. Would it have mattered if the chapter was smaller? not really. I still saw my little & grandlittle on a regular basis and I still hung out with my group of sister-friends. I just didn't go to (many)chapter meetings or socials.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by ASTalumna06

I'm not sure if I'm posing this as a statement, or as more of a question, but...

Maybe the problems with retention (specifically with those who get "bored" and drop later in their college career) have something to do with the size of the chapter.

With a chapter of 100-200 sisters (maybe more), I can see how it would be easy to get lost in the mix. Girls can go through 4 years of school and never hold a major position. I don't know this from experience, but in some cases, I would think it might be difficult to stand up, speak out, and actually be heard amongst that many young women. Being one in a sea of faces doesn't cut it for some people, and sometimes they don't realize that until they're drowning in the middle of it.

Or maybe I'm completely off base..

I think that some people who join larger chapters actually WANT to be "just a member." You've got to think about how much these positions entail in larger chapters - rush chair, for instance. You're in charge of motivating and directing 200 girls and a HUGE budget - it really is almost like an adult job. I think that some people who join smaller chapters want to be "just a member" too, but they can only do that to a certain extent.

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.

But doesn't Penn have a lot of problems with underground sororities and fraternities? That's an element in the mix that many schools don't have. I'm sure if I saw my friend in an unrecognized group paying half of what I pay and having the same (if not a better) experience, that might make me rethink my membership as well.

[Low C Sharp]

There was a poster on here who said, in effect, that at her (pre-freshman rush) school, people routinely disaffiliated by their junior and definitely senior year, as Greek life was looked on as something you did as an underclassman. To the point that only 25% of her pledge class was left by the time she graduated.

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.
________
1Madonna4U

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

I'd like to see real data on this too, because the campus I know best (Penn) has deferred recruitment and very poor upperclass retention. Clearly, anecdote won't get us anywhere on this question.

Exactly. I can think about my campus and I know that we had some bigger issues with retention than other chapters at the time. But as quota increased we were less and less able to put more effort into NM retention because there were more NMs in one case than there were actives who were qualified to be Big Sisters. It was freaky! We kept from spiraling down that membership hole and AFAIK we're doing wonderfully there now. Adding a chapter helped keep quota down and made life easier for all of us.

But that was one chapter during one 4 year window. I obviously have no idea how the other chapters managed and I have no way to say that changing recruitment would have made a difference for the better.

But I do think a lot of people here have had ideas that would improve recruitment no matter when it is held. (As well as lessening the pressure on the numbers, but that is all HQs.)

ETA: With the whole seniors not returning thing: We had quite a few nursing and engineering students and they were slammed by senior year if they weren't already. They didn't leave but they didn't have a lot of time for social/philanthropy events.

[ASTalumna06]

^ Oh, I don't doubt that there are people in both large and small chapters who would like to be "just a number".. trust me, I know.

I'm simply asking if one of the reasons that girls drop is because maybe it doesn't seem "worth it" to them... to pay all that money and to seemingly not have a huge influence on the chapter. Or maybe everyone does.. I don't know. This is why I ask.

[Shellfish]

The underground sorority at Penn hazes openly, though. On the other hand, I suspect that some students at Penn want to be hazed for what they think is a typical Greek experience.

[ASTalumna06]

And whether or not deferred recruitment has an influence on retention rates, I don't know. I'm trying to weigh all of the factors (which could be impossible)

I'm actually curious to see what will happen on my campus this upcoming semester. Panhellenic decided to change to a partially structured type of recruitment. I don't have all of the details yet, but I'm glad they're adding a more formal kind of recruitment. However, I think it would be more beneficial for them if they moved it to the spring. Retention rates for all three chapters dropped last year when they did away with deferred recruitment.

I guess we'll see if the type of recruitment changes anything.. although, I'm not seeing how it would get better.