After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[LaneSig]

Originally Posted by violetpretty

The other reason I though of voluntary withdrawls/depledging is because I interpretted Lane Sig's question as certain chapters experiencing higher amounts of depledging/withdrawls than others. I'm not sure what he was getting at.

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by LaneSig

This is what I was primarily referring to; the voluntary withdrawls/depledging.

Example with changes in names: Southern State University's Alpha Beta sorority chapter is on a big campus with a competitive rush. All the other chapters begin rush with 150+ girls. Alpha Beta begins rush with +/- 60 girls. Before RMF, Alpha Beta never made quota. In the last couple of years, someone posts how all the chapters at SSU made quota (which is a good thing). However, when the spring grade report rolls around, all of the other sororities have 200+/- members, and AB, which should have 100 +/- members, still has about 60.

I guess I'm asking is if RMF is truly working, wouldn't AB be building their chapter instead of remaining the same.

I think it depends on when the depledging happens for us to be able to judge. But RMF is primarily aimed at achieving quota I think and doesn't address the other related issues. (So it solved one problem and revealed another perhaps)

[Drolefille]

So, because it's been brought up several times: Do we really think girls of "this generation" are all that different from girls 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? Are these really new problems or just repackaged old ones? Or even a cyclical one?

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

So, because it's been brought up several times: Do we really think girls of "this generation" are all that different from girls 10, 20, 30, 40 years ago? Are these really new problems or just repackaged old ones? Or even a cyclical one?

Like many things, RMF doesn't exist in a vacuum. There are lots of other issues that weren't there 30 years ago, like shortened pledge programs, economic issues, tightened risk management and more emphasis on maintaining larger chapters (or at least on all the chapters being the same size).

The only thing that I think is really of "this generation" is the "OMG I've been in the sorority 2 weeks and I'm still not BFFs with everyone and I still don't fit in!!" I certainly didn't expect to be best friends with everyone after such a short period of time. Then again, this also doesn't exist in a vacuum - you have to factor in increased social interaction online and things like that. It's hard to tell which came first, the chicken or the egg.

[Low C Sharp]

this past recruitment we had like 10 girls who had pledge chapters the year before go back through trying to get the chapter they didn't get the first time. 10 girls is a lot of my school which is fairly small.

Did it work for any of them?
________

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Did it work for any of them?

Just tagging on to this one, because we didn't have 10 but we would occasionally have a few. WE did have one who went through almost the whole NM period and it was not a well... mature... parting of ways on her part. Somehow she didn't end up with a bid the second time around.

Lesson to PNMs going around again on a second year: Chapters talk to each other.

[bu1904]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Did it work for any of them?

Only 2 girls, the others either got dropped completely after the first round or still didnt get the chapter they wanted and withdrew from recruitment.

[Drolefille]

As far as family, that's basically what entitlement is. Witness the trolls on this site who pull the "my grandma founded not only the chapter but the entire sorority." That's the extreme, but growing up with "Alpha Beta" stories and assuming you will be an Alpha Beta because of your family is pretty much the definition of entitlement.

Teenagers are shallow, we don't expect them to be super discerning adults. But if the only people "hurt" are PNMs who are unwilling to consider other groups... then we're probably doing pretty good as far as a recruitment system.

But it's less about family legacy or "lets be ABC" and more "If I'm not DEF I'm not going to be anything." And those girls are out there.

Originally Posted by Barbie's_Rush

And sometimes it's the mother that's the "jerk" because she won't allow the daughter to pledge a chapter she really really loves because mom considers it "sub-standard."

And thus my utter disgust at the tier system (campus wide or nationally ) and the women who perpetuate it.

[carnation]

Oh, some PNMs are entitled little jerks. Others, however, are regular girls who sincerely believe with their parents that they can pledge their legacy chapter; the legacy chapter may not even be one of those that tons of girls are desperately trying to get. They just want to do what the family did. When they don't have that option, they honestly don't know what to do next and the RC may or may not be able to guide them wisely.

What violetpretty said is true, though, about guys pretty much determining the tier levels. I have told many alums what she said in the past day or so and they agreed that she hit the nail on the head.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by carnation

Oh, some PNMs are entitled little jerks. Others, however, are regular girls who sincerely believe with their parents that they can pledge their legacy chapter; the legacy chapter may not even be one of those that tons of girls are desperately trying to get. They just want to do what the family did. When they don't have that option, they honestly don't know what to do next and the RC may or may not be able to guide them wisely.

What violetpretty said is true, though, about guys pretty much determining the tier levels. I have told many alums what she said in the past day or so and they agreed that she hit the nail on the head.

Sure, but they're still entitled, even if they're not over the top about it. I'd say most manage to get over the disappointment and move forward.

Even if, and it's a big if in my opinion, guys "determine" the tiers, the women perpetuate it, particularly when it "benefits" their chapter. And guys don't really have a hand in the national "tier system" nor do they explain the mothers we get on here who influence, push, or outright demand that their daughters not join a particular chapter. (or man the "send pics so I know our chapter at ABC University is worth my daughter joining" people.)

We can't just push it off on the guys and act like we don't have anything to do with it. It's harmful for the Greek system and should be something that we work on with PNMs and chapters alike.

[carnation]

Though I'm very involved in the recruitments of many campuses these days, I don't know if the tiers (yeah, yeah some people hate them but they're still perceived) exist that existed years ago. At Auburn, for instance, many people used to look down on the "quad sororities" because they were newer groups and thus located in the older and worse dorms. Then 30 years ago, everyone moved up to the Hill and now for a year, they've all had more or less equal new housing. Also, determining of quota is now done right before prefs (rather than after second parties) so the days of some groups taking huge pledge classes and the rest taking much smaller ones are past and that had a lot to do with perceptions too.

RFM has much to do with changing perceptions too. Now that most sororities on many competitive campuses are taking quota, no one can say, "The Mu Mus only got 50 and the rest of us got 70 so they stink." Even the most naive of rushees back in the day could look around and see that her pledge class was noticeably smaller than the others and begin to wonder if she'd made the right decision. And others in her pledge class were wondering too and before you knew it, half the pledge class was gone.

It would be great if we could educate parents about the changing world of NPC recruitment but other than some lip service paid to "What is a Legacy?" in the occasional parent brochure and on sorority websites, it's not happening and I don't see how we'd reach most parents anyway.

[Barbie's_Rush]

I've mentioned it before in this thread, but I think it's worth mentioning again:

Making quota is very different from retaining new members.

[SWTXBelle]

Not necessarily - depends a great deal on the campus. There are many campuses where the bid list(s) are all but decided before recruitment even starts. There has to be a cut-off point - unless you want recruitment to run for weeks.

[carnation]

^^ Star what she said. I don't care if the rush is in early August or mid-October, at many of these schools certain sororities know who they want and hardly anything (unless one of their favored girls does a pole dance on the campus flagpole) is going to change that list. Rarely do you hear of someone saying at these schools, "Hey! I just met a fabulous girl at first parties (or in my class or at a party) and we really need to consider her!"

Nope, if one of their favored girls cuts them, they have a zillion backups to fill her place and have had them for months.

[AXOrushadvisor]

Just curious, Carnation, how do the Chapters know a whole pledge class full of women prior to recruitment? Are these not the same girls all the other houses want too?

On a side note, do you think the RFM's have made recruitment more competitive? The reason why I ask this is that I often hear the PNM's saying how some Chapters are making huge cuts (again not understanding the system) and it is so hard to get an invitation so more cuts = exclusivity of those said Chapters?