After Several Years: What Do You Think of the New Release Figures?

[ree-Xi]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just interested
All I know is I applaud Chi O for sticking to their guns and waiting until after the semester and grades are made to initiate. I feel it makes membership much more special and moms I've talked to like it as well. I don't know about retention and all that but I think the way it is now girls feel they are just joining a club and not a life long affiliation. Change is good but at what cost, numbers or lifelong members. Just random thoughts

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

Are their any studies or numbers that support this? How does an extra month of waiting for initiation improve the odds that a girl will take the lifelong membership seriously? Have you seen more people intiated then have to be dropped for grades? There is a relatively small difference in time of the new member period in both situations...I fail to see how it can make that big of a difference. I don't think AOII has seen a change in grades over the years, which is the only thing that I can see would actually be different between the two options.

My thoughts: I read this more as suggesting that the mystery of "will I or won't I be initiated" gives NM more incentive to keep going, consistently improving, because only by achieveing something (here, it's grades, but if you look at old school pledge programs, where everything was covered in mystery) would you get to initiation.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by ree-Xi

Quote:
Originally Posted by Just interested
All I know is I applaud Chi O for sticking to their guns and waiting until after the semester and grades are made to initiate. I feel it makes membership much more special and moms I've talked to like it as well. I don't know about retention and all that but I think the way it is now girls feel they are just joining a club and not a life long affiliation. Change is good but at what cost, numbers or lifelong members. Just random thoughts



I read this more as suggesting that the mystery of "will I or won't I be initiated" gives NM more incentive to keep going, consistently improving, because only by achieveing something (here, it's grades, but if you look at old school pledge programs, where everything was covered in mystery) would you get to initiation.

So the extra month of wondering really makes them more eager to be a true lifelong member? I don't buy it! Also, if you think about it, many of our organizations immediately initiated new members in the early days. Our first "pledge" was initiated almost immediately. This long pledging period evolved over time and was not an original ideal of at least the AOII founders. If it was good enough for them, it's good enough for me!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Just interested

All I know is I applaud Chi O for sticking to their guns and waiting until after the semester and grades are made to initiate. I feel it makes membership much more special and moms I've talked to like it as well. I don't know about retention and all that but I think the way it is now girls feel they are just joining a club and not a life long affiliation. Change is good but at what cost, numbers or lifelong members. Just random thoughts

Well, if everyone would just wait and have rush second semester like they should, this would be a moot point.

I mean, is there anything showing that Chi Omega has lower disaffiliation figures than other groups because of this?

[agzg]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Well, if everyone would just wait and have rush second semester like they should, this would be a moot point.

I mean, is there anything showing that Chi Omega has lower disaffiliation figures than other groups because of this?

I know there have been debates about deferred recruitment here and I hope this doesn't turn into one. I also know that you know I agree with you.

Deferred recruitment, while it has many cons, has many pros. One of which is that you have college grades to go on, rather than high school. It doesn't guarantee that every new member will make grades, but the majority will. Just like you can't guarantee that every active will make grades on a given semester.

I still believe that the only reason why I was able to maintain my grades during my new member period (lovin' these PC terms) was because I'd been through a couple semesters before (I didn't join until the fall of my sophomore year). I may not have had my best grades ever (I was sick most of the semester, was still joining, and a full courseload - honestly I don't know how I lived through that semester), but at least I was able to maintain my dean's list status.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by alphagamzetagam

I know there have been debates about deferred recruitment here and I hope this doesn't turn into one.

Hence my .

I just think of people like my high school's yearbook editor and NHS president (among other things) who got to Penn State, partied too much, and promptly flunked out. She looked fabulous on paper and had a great personality - any chapter would have been falling over themselves to bid her. But the fact is, she just couldn't handle college life - at least at that college - and knowing her, I don't think study hours or (in the case of Chi O) the threat of not initiating would have changed that.

Danielle, this is an odd question, but do you think there are people from a wider geographic area going to Pitt & going Greek there now?

[honeychile]

Pre-shortened NM periods, we pledged more than one woman who never did make the grades, so that's not the only reason I'm against the shortened NM periods. We also had women who were so grade-oriented, they only attended sorority functions which were mandatory. I will always say that one of the biggest advantages of being in a sorority is learning how to balance grades (job) and social obligations responsibly!

ThetaGirl, when I was a pledge, we had a 15-18 week pledge period, and had to have one term's GPA prior to initiation. During Recruitment, many sororities wouldn't cut PNMs until the last moment, keeping the quota really high, and having the PNMs hold out to see if they were going to get a invitation to Pref from the "highly regarded" sororities.

[Kansas City]

Question: About PH making the "phone call" ... are we talking about flex numbers here? From the chapter I advise at smaller Greek system, a "popular" chapter might be flexed 6-12 PNMs per day but that chapter would have a say in which PNMs they were flexed on or off. Any thoughts from GC?

[AXOrushadvisor]

Originally Posted by Kansas City

Question: About PH making the "phone call" ... are we talking about flex numbers here? From the chapter I advise at smaller Greek system, a "popular" chapter might be flexed 6-12 PNMs per day but that chapter would have a say in which PNMs they were flexed on or off. Any thoughts from GC?

KC the way it works on our campus if they are on your flex list they are fair game. We spend a lot of time on those list for that specific reason.

[FSUZeta]

chapters set their own numbers-they could invite back every last pnm if they wanted to all the way thru prefs. there was a set quota, the same number for all groups. there was a lot of "stringing along" as you can imagine.

[GammaPhi88]

Back to release figures...

As someone recently initiated, I am a product of the new release figures, and would like to add my two cents. While I did not suffer incredibly heavy cuts, I am glad that release figures gave me far smaller of a pool of sororities to choose from. Because I was cut from some chapters I loved early on, I was forced to look at other chapters I might have no considered. From those chapters, I fell in love with my current chapter, and I might not have been as happy as I am in Gamma Phi Beta had the old system before RFM been in place.

So, while I only know of the other system from comparisons and not experience, I do know that I would be far more devastated being dropped before pref than right at the get go. After what I have learned from former methods, I am almost sure I may not have preffed the three great houses I did pref, and I'd rather have gotten over cuts early on and been happy with my later choices than the other way around.

As for the notion that some PNMs may be forced to attend some houses bid day, I did not see that in my recruitment to a great extent. I did, however, see many girls in the same situation as me...who had been cut early on and grew to love the houses they have left. And its done wonders for the smaller houses on campus.

Of course, there will still be people who drop out because of their choices. I know I'm pretty unsympathetic on the subject, I think thats a silly thing to do, because a house may have seen something in your where you would fit into their house. I know the system is not perfect, its not. But while the new RFM may cause the closed minded people to drop out, I think thats fine with me. At the risk of being less than politically correct, if they can't open themselves up to the wonderful oppertunities each and every sorority has to offer, I don't really want those pnms in the greek system

[UGAalum94]

Sort of random, but I was reading something recently about how people do better and feel better about their decisions when they have fewer options available. (The post above mine made me think about it.)

It's possible that the shift to making PNMS rank the groups and then their getting party lists with only invites to the maximum number of parties on it (which isn't technically part of the release figures, but I think makes them work better, right?) may be a good thing in itself. I would think that ranking would be less like a final decision than having to actually accept and regret.

[ASTalumna06]

Originally Posted by GammaPhi88

Because I was cut from some chapters I loved early on, I was forced to look at other chapters I might have no considered. From those chapters, I fell in love with my current chapter, and I might not have been as happy as I am in Gamma Phi Beta had the old system before RFM been in place.

...

Of course, there will still be people who drop out because of their choices. I know I'm pretty unsympathetic on the subject, I think thats a silly thing to do, because a house may have seen something in your where you would fit into their house. I know the system is not perfect, its not. But while the new RFM may cause the closed minded people to drop out, I think thats fine with me. At the risk of being less than politically correct, if they can't open themselves up to the wonderful oppertunities each and every sorority has to offer, I don't really want those pnms in the greek system

I agree.

I have no experience with either system, but I do know 18-year-old girls. A good portion of them will never visit Greekchat (how sad) and they'll never know that they should keep an open mind. They'll have their eyes on a few sororities (or one!) and they won't receive a bid. If that happens after the first party and they drop out, then they weren't meant for sorority life anyway. If you string them along for 3 recruitment parties, knowing that they won't receive a bid from your sorority, you're setting them up for a huge disappointment, and I would understand them dropping out just a little bit more. I can't imagine it feels great to get cut heavily after the first round, but imagine going to 3 or 4 parties, really getting to know a chapter, and then not being invited back for preference. I understand that can still happen, but it wouldn't be to such a great extent.

And while these PNMs are striving to get bids to their one or two favorite chapters, there's a very good chance they'd be ignoring the other chapters that invited them back. No matter how many other girls were still with you at the party before prefs, as a PNM, you'd probably still think you had a very good chance. As GammaPhi88 pointed out, this system allowed her to focus on the groups that truly wanted her. In the long run, I'm sure that a lot of people would prefer to know the places where they truly had a chance earlier rather than later... no matter how disappointing it might be.

In addition, there are schools with a ridiculous number of sororities. I can't imagine having to go to 15+ parties for the first round. But imagine having to do that for the next few parties, also. With these release figures, it gives the PNMs more time to know the sisters, and vice versa, without having a crazy amount of PNMs there during each round.

And IMO, the old system would waste recruitment time. In a formal recruitment setting, you only have so much time to meet and talk to PNMs. Why, as a sister, would you want to be there during round 3, talking to a PNM that you know won't be wearing your letters on bid day?

[VandalSquirrel]

Originally Posted by GammaPhi88

Back to release figures...

As someone recently initiated, I am a product of the new release figures, and would like to add my two cents. While I did not suffer incredibly heavy cuts, I am glad that release figures gave me far smaller of a pool of sororities to choose from. Because I was cut from some chapters I loved early on, I was forced to look at other chapters I might have no considered. From those chapters, I fell in love with my current chapter, and I might not have been as happy as I am in Gamma Phi Beta had the old system before RFM been in place.

So, while I only know of the other system from comparisons and not experience, I do know that I would be far more devastated being dropped before pref than right at the get go. After what I have learned from former methods, I am almost sure I may not have preffed the three great houses I did pref, and I'd rather have gotten over cuts early on and been happy with my later choices than the other way around.

As for the notion that some PNMs may be forced to attend some houses bid day, I did not see that in my recruitment to a great extent. I did, however, see many girls in the same situation as me...who had been cut early on and grew to love the houses they have left. And its done wonders for the smaller houses on campus.

Of course, there will still be people who drop out because of their choices. I know I'm pretty unsympathetic on the subject, I think thats a silly thing to do, because a house may have seen something in your where you would fit into their house. I know the system is not perfect, its not. But while the new RFM may cause the closed minded people to drop out, I think thats fine with me. At the risk of being less than politically correct, if they can't open themselves up to the wonderful oppertunities each and every sorority has to offer, I don't really want those pnms in the greek system

We pretty much feel the same way. Better to be released from chapters early, than led on and be left with no house because of being unable to see the forest for the trees, blidners, insert metaphor or cliche here.

[Blue Skies]

One advantage to the old system is that from a PNM's point of view, you felt like each chapter was giving you a fair chance if they invited you back to the second or third round (whether they were actively considering you or not -- a PNM would have no way of knowing.) If a chapter dropped you after the third round, you could at least say, "Well, I met quite a number of the sorority's sisters, and for whatever reason they felt that I would not be a good fit." The perception of fairness was there, and PNM's were still able to meet, and form perceptions of the chapters that might eventually become their homes.

Under the new system, PNM's are more likely to receive heavy cuts early on. If a girl was cut from the majority of the chapters after the first round (as might happen in a very competitive rush,) I don't think I would blame her for being soured on the whole process. PNM's are always told to keep an open mind, but if a girl receives heavy cuts early on, her *perception* is that the chapters are not keeping an open mind about her. The process of recruitment becomes that much more confusing and painful for her. She might be forgiven if she never gave the few chapters which invited her back a second chance. If a PNM feels completely out of control of what seems to be an incomprehensible recruitment process, the quickest way for her to regain control is to drop out.

I'm not writing this to knock the new system, which I think has many virtues. I'm just not convinced that it presents the sorority system as a whole in the best possible light to PNM's.

[UGAalum94]

Blue Skies, I can totally see what you are saying and as a formal rush drop out myself, I agree with your assessment to some degree and can remember saying to someone at the time that I didn't feel any particular gratitude to the groups that cut me early.

BUT, I think it works better systematically for the groups to cut girls they really aren't serious about early on. It's better for the chapters to know who is willing to continue with the process even when they know who is really in the running than it is for them to get word only on pref day that many of their PNMs dropped.