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  #1  
Old 11-16-2008, 04:59 PM
UHDEEGEE UHDEEGEE is offline
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How can you not get a 4.0 in high school? Hmmm, let me count the ways.
You attend an exemplary (and extremely competitive) high school, your senior class has 760 students with the top 10% ALL having a 4.5, over half of the top 10% are National Merit Semi-Finalists, your AP classes all use college text books, your high school peers are the highly intelligent children of rocket scientists (literally), doctors, entrepreneurs, CEO's, CFO's, etc. and your school administration KNOWS it so the curriculum is designed to be ABOVE what the state's minimum requirements are, a weighted GPA of 3.5 at your high school is still considered better than an unweighted 4.0 at just about every other high school in your city because of the rigorous curriculum.

I understand the value of a high GPA because I had that 4.0, but I see how much harder my son's school is than the one I attended 30 years ago. He does not have an unweighted 4.0, but if I dropped him in most ANY other school in the Houston area, he'd have that GPA because he takes the most advanced courses that his school offers. He opted to actually learn something in school as opposed to taking the "easy A" road.

Personally, I think this stupid Top 10% law in Texas is going to be the death knell of our higher education system. When a kid with a 3.5 GPA and a 900 SAT gets into UT over a kid with a 4.0 and an 1840 SAT simply because they are in the top 10% of their class, then I think there is a serious problem. When you don't look at the level of difficulty of classes that a student takes in high school, you cannot compare apples to apples.

I would pretty much guarantee that a student graduating with a 3.85 out of my son's high school (and those like it) is going to be quite successful at their college of choice.
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  #2  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:02 PM
em_adpi em_adpi is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UHDEEGEE View Post
Personally, I think this stupid Top 10% law in Texas is going to be the death knell of our higher education system. When a kid with a 3.5 GPA and a 900 SAT gets into UT over a kid with a 4.0 and an 1840 SAT simply because they are in the top 10% of their class, then I think there is a serious problem. When you don't look at the level of difficulty of classes that a student takes in high school, you cannot compare apples to apples.

I would pretty much guarantee that a student graduating with a 3.85 out of my son's high school (and those like it) is going to be quite successful at their college of choice.
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  #3  
Old 11-16-2008, 05:48 PM
TriDeltaSallie TriDeltaSallie is offline
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For the sake of those out of the Texas loop, could you explain the reasoning behind the 10% rule?

Thanks!
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  #4  
Old 11-16-2008, 07:44 PM
breathesgelatin breathesgelatin is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TriDeltaSallie View Post
For the sake of those out of the Texas loop, could you explain the reasoning behind the 10% rule?

Thanks!
The top 10% rule was passed in the aftermath of the Hopwood v. Texas in 1996. That court case struck down UT's affirmative action policy when 4 white plaintiffs who had been rejected from the UT law school won a court case.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hopwood_v._Texas

The Michigan court case decided by the Supreme Court now probably overrides Hopwood v. Texas. But back in 1996, both the legislature wanted to do something to preserve some kind of affirmative action. The concern was that students from weaker high schools or remote areas of Texas (well, really any of areas of Texas outside the most prestigious high schools in the urban centers of Dallas, Austin, Houston, San Antonio) would face an uphill battle getting into UT. So the top 10% rule was instituted. It states that any student who graduates in the top 10% of their HS class will automatically receive admission to any Texas state school. In practice, most of those students end up going to UT.

UT doesn't like the top 10% rule much because they A) believe they could achieve more geographical/racial/ethnic diversity in admissions without it (and especially in the aftermath of the Michigan case) and B) are now forced to "automatically" admit up to 80% of their freshmen class. Since they save some spots for out of state and international students, you can see that it is extremely, extremely difficult for them to keep the size of the freshmen class down and admit anyone from a Texas high school who is not in the top 10%. The school next most affected by the rule, A&M, I believe admits 40-50% of their class based on the top 10% rule, so they are not nearly as affected as UT at this point (although the numbers are climbing for all the Texas schools).

I believe there is currently a lawsuit from a Houston student challenging the top 10% rule as reverse discrimination against students from predominantly white, urban and suburban prestigious high schools. That student failed to make the top 10% at her school because she took orchestra for four years, which is not a weighted course.

That said, as an instructor at UT, I do not believe the top 10% rule really means the student body at UT is unqualified or anything of that sort. In fact, some of the students from prestigious high schools have been low performers in my classes because they get to UT and go Greek and start drinking and partying too much and go crazy, whereas the students from small or rural or "weak" high schools are there to really better themselves and move up in the world. Just my opinion.

Basically, at this point, no one likes the top 10% rule except students from smaller high schools and the legislature. It does have the advantage of being some kind of "objective" standard that based on the way high schools are distributed across the state, will guarantee some kind of racial/ethnic/geographic diversity at the school. Personally I think it would make sense to alter the rule so that you were required to be admitted to A Texas state university rather than ANY Texas state university. Don't know if that would fly though. I think it will be interesting to see how the lawsuit from the Houston student goes and if the top 10% rule is struck down.

I also feel that if the top 10% rule does get struck down or altered by the legislature, UT will start dramatically reducing the size of its freshmen classes. The university would like to have more students housed on campus and more money to spread around per student, and more money to spend on graduate students and research programs. So if the top 10% rule goes, there are still going to be struggles for students from prestigious high schools, because there will be fewer students admitted overall.

I also have to say I'm not super-sympathetic to students from prestigious high schools, as I believe that the students who just miss getting into UT can usually A) easily achieve admission to any number of other good universities inside or outside of Texas, some of them possibly even more prestigious than UT and B) can easily afford tuition at private universities (not to mention A&M and Tech - it's not like those two schools are bad schools or something, and actually those schools, particularly Tech, may benefit from the top 10% rule by having more students check them out). I do understand that for many of those students, going to UT is a family tradition or whatever. But... I dunno.
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  #5  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:00 PM
Ladybugmom Ladybugmom is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by UHDEEGEE View Post
How can you not get a 4.0 in high school? Hmmm, let me count the ways.
You attend an exemplary (and extremely competitive) high school, your senior class has 760 students with the top 10% ALL having a 4.5, over half of the top 10% are National Merit Semi-Finalists, your AP classes all use college text books, your high school peers are the highly intelligent children of rocket scientists (literally), doctors, entrepreneurs, CEO's, CFO's, etc. and your school administration KNOWS it so the curriculum is designed to be ABOVE what the state's minimum requirements are, a weighted GPA of 3.5 at your high school is still considered better than an unweighted 4.0 at just about every other high school in your city because of the rigorous curriculum.

I understand the value of a high GPA because I had that 4.0, but I see how much harder my son's school is than the one I attended 30 years ago. He does not have an unweighted 4.0, but if I dropped him in most ANY other school in the Houston area, he'd have that GPA because he takes the most advanced courses that his school offers. He opted to actually learn something in school as opposed to taking the "easy A" road.

Personally, I think this stupid Top 10% law in Texas is going to be the death knell of our higher education system. When a kid with a 3.5 GPA and a 900 SAT gets into UT over a kid with a 4.0 and an 1840 SAT simply because they are in the top 10% of their class, then I think there is a serious problem. When you don't look at the level of difficulty of classes that a student takes in high school, you cannot compare apples to apples.

I would pretty much guarantee that a student graduating with a 3.85 out of my son's high school (and those like it) is going to be quite successful at their college of choice.
Very, very well said!!!! You again have hit the nail on the head!! I would love to hear from others that have gone through recruitment at OU to see if they would agree that a 3.8 un-weighted GPA is just too low...
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  #6  
Old 11-16-2008, 06:07 PM
kstar kstar is offline
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Originally Posted by Ladybugmom View Post
Very, very well said!!!! You again have hit the nail on the head!! I would love to hear from others that have gone through recruitment at OU to see if they would agree that a 3.8 un-weighted GPA is just too low...
I didn't say it was too low, and if, indeed your daughter is very involved in the community, volunteering, and in extracurriculars, she probably will get a bid. I just wanted to point out that it is lower than most of the girls going through rush, so she will need the other areas to be higher, especially recs. There are usually anywhere between 700 and 1000 going through rush, and over half of them will be 4.0s.
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