Second Presidential Debate

[Nanners52674]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

No, not really. I see far more than 20% of my paycheck deducted each month, and I don't make 250K. If you do make that much, it's more like 33%...so, that ends up being about $13K a month. For 6 people (4 kids!), that's not that much. Also, don't forget:

-insurance premiums/deductions
-pre-tax deductions for retirement
-state/local taxes
-Social Security
-any other pre-tax deductions (for example, I get one for public transportation)

Also, you have to factor in regional costs of living. What's "comfortable" in Michigan is "middle class" in NYC/SF, and "honking wealthy" in Mississippi.

If you take your $13,000 a month figure thats still a yearly income of $156,000 and would allow each member of the 6 person family $26,000 to live off of. In my mind cost of living is factored in automatically I live in Ct where the median cost of a home is $300,000 not as high as say orange county, Ca but still it's not cheap to live here. Granted i don't have children and i live with a family member so rent and utilities are not something in my current budget. But I live on max $100 a week for groceries gas and general spending and most weeks i don't spend all of that.

Maybe im just lost because im only 21 and don't have a family or mortgage or those kinds of responsibilities but i just cant accept the fact that $13,000 is not enough money to live comfortably.

But then again maybe my definition of comfortable is different than yours and thats where the problem lies.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

If you take your $13,000 a month figure thats still a yearly income of $156,000 and would allow each member of the 6 person family $26,000 to live off of. In my mind cost of living is factored in automatically I live in Ct where the median cost of a home is $300,000 not as high as say orange county, Ca but still it's not cheap to live here. Granted i don't have children and i live with a family member so rent and utilities are not something in my current budget. But I live on max $100 a week for groceries gas and general spending and most weeks i don't spend all of that.

Maybe im just lost because im only 21 and don't have a family or mortgage or those kinds of responsibilities but i just cant accept the fact that $13,000 is not enough money to live comfortably.

But then again maybe my definition of comfortable is different than yours and thats where the problem lies.

I live in CT as well, and when you factor in mortgage, insurance, utility bills, taxes, healthcare (even with insurance, things like co-pays for visits and Rx), the odd home improvement (which, depending on the problem, could run you upwards of $10,000), heating for the winter (if needed, whether oil or wood), clothing, and a number of other factors, those numbers go up quite a bit.

[ajuhdg]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Maybe im just lost because im only 21 and don't have a family or mortgage or those kinds of responsibilities but i just cant accept the fact that $13,000 is not enough money to live comfortably.

But then again maybe my definition of comfortable is different than yours and thats where the problem lies.

DEFINITELY definitions different. For example, median home cost here is half of that in CT. Not to mention, my family of 5 (MIL lives with us) would NEVER be able to get by $100/week. (I went to the store yesterday and bought FOUR loaves of bread and 2 gallons of milk, which MIGHT get us through the weekend.)

While comfortable is certainly a debatable term, again, just because you CAN live off of a certain amount why should you HAVE to? There are certain things that I have no problem buying generic of, while others might not even look at the price of things. I cut coupons, not because I have to, but because I like to save money where I can. My cousin and her husband make slightly less than we do, but she is STRICTLY organic in her food choices. Obviously that costs more, but that is her 'necessity'.

It seems to be the progression, people who make more money tend to spend more money. If I was making 250k+ per year, then I would have wider opportunities for say a vehicle purchase. I don't HAVE to have a $700/month car payment (believe my, I'm happy that I have a $250 one!), but if the money's there why not!? I don't think anyone's whining that there just barely scrimping by on $13k/month, but if you're really working for it why should you have to give it back. Not to mention, if you're making more, you're most likely putting most of it back into the economy anyway, right? That was just an side thought...

nuff rambling!

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by ajuhdg

DEFINITELY definitions different. For example, median home cost here is half of that in CT. Not to mention, my family of 5 (MIL lives with us) would NEVER be able to get by $100/week. (I went to the store yesterday and bought FOUR loaves of bread and 2 gallons of milk, which MIGHT get us through the weekend.)

While comfortable is certainly a debatable term, again, just because you CAN live off of a certain amount why should you HAVE to? There are certain things that I have no problem buying generic of, while others might not even look at the price of things. I cut coupons, not because I have to, but because I like to save money where I can. My cousin and her husband make slightly less than we do, but she is STRICTLY organic in her food choices. Obviously that costs more, but that is her 'necessity'.

It seems to be the progression, people who make more money tend to spend more money. If I was making 250k+ per year, then I would have wider opportunities for say a vehicle purchase. I don't HAVE to have a $700/month car payment (believe my, I'm happy that I have a $250 one!), but if the money's there why not!? I don't think anyone's whining that there just barely scrimping by on $13k/month, but if you're really working for it why should you have to give it back. Not to mention, if you're making more, you're most likely putting most of it back into the economy anyway, right? That was just an side thought...

nuff rambling!

That's where the arguments for a national sales tax instead of the income tax make sense. The FairTax plan has a "prebate", where you get a check for what the government has determined to be the tax an average family of your size in your area would pay on necessities (so you aren't paying taxes on things you need to get by), but after that the idea is that rich people spend more money and buy more expensive things, so they pay more sales tax. It is a progressive tax in that sense. It also helps with the fact that some of the richest people in the world have no real income and are just paying the capital gains rate on investments and no other income tax, so you can get at their money when they spend it.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by Nanners52674

Granted i don't have children and i live with a family member so rent and utilities are not something in my current budget. But I live on max $100 a week for groceries gas and general spending and most weeks i don't spend all of that.

Maybe im just lost because im only 21 and don't have a family or mortgage or those kinds of responsibilities but i just cant accept the fact that $13,000 is not enough money to live comfortably.

No one ever said it wasn't enough to live comfortably. It's just not as much as you think it is. Get back to us in a few years, once you've been on your own and seen what it takes.