Congrats to Michelle Obama

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yes. Especially if 1) McCain's understanding of the honorary membership was in question and 2) if NPHCers went on a tangent like the NPCers went on in this thread.

Maybe, but I don't think anyone would pay much attention to which group it was.

Are you really prepared to say that you think the identities of the NPC groups are as clearly fixed in the public mind as the NPHC groups? Really?

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Are you really prepared to say that you think the identities of the NPC groups are as clearly fixed in the public mind as the NPHC groups? Really?

Public mind:

A. the majority, which is majority white and nonGreek, and barely knows "black history" not to mention about the existence or stereotypes of NPHC orgs
B. Greeks who are familiar with the NPHC and the stereotypes (which isn't the case for most white Greeks)
C. All Greeks
D. members of NPHC and nonNPHC BGLO members
E. the black community

Which one?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Public mind:

A. the majority, which is majority white and nonGreek, and barely knows "black history" not to mention about the existence or stereotypes of NPHC orgs
B. Greeks who are familiar with the NPHC and the stereotypes (which isn't the case for most white Greeks)
C. All Greeks
D. members of NPHC and nonNPHC BGLO members
E. the black community

Which one?

B, D certainly. Probably many of E, and more of C than you probably realize. There are also some of A who pay any attention to groups while they are on campus.

But random white people who didn't go to a campus with NPHC groups or didn't go to college, or who don't live near or work with more than one NPHC alum, maybe not many.

But if you work someplace with more than on NPHC represented you can learn the reputations and stereotypes pretty quickly because people will always fill you in about someone else's org, so in metropolitan areas, it may be more than you'd think. Now, who knows if any of the info is accurate, but it's the stereotypes.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by breathesgelatin

OK, maybe for people who only know that skit, but not for anyone who really knows about NPC.

The same can be said about any stereotype. You know those who fit the stereotype (stereotypes come from somewhere--but I really think that SNL skit was based on a general "sorority girl" stereotype and Delta Delta Delta was used because it rhymed) but given a real familiarity with the group, you know that the stereotype doesn't always fit unless there are formal or informal guidelines to uphold it.

Thanks for your interesting input in the rest of your post, too!

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The same can be said about any stereotype. You know those who fit the stereotype (stereotypes come from somewhere) but given a real familiarity with the group, you know that the stereotype doesn't always fit unless there are formal or informal guidelines to uphold it.

Thanks for your interesting input!

Right. But I think that Tri-Delta may be one of the few specific NPC orgs that even breaks through the national consciousness. Maybe an argument could be made for Theta as well, because of the attention given to the prominent Republican women who belong to Theta in recent years. But other than that, I can't think of many examples where a specific org breaks through.

And for people educated about NPC, it's hard to say what really distinguishes Tri-Delta (sorry to keep using them). It's certainly not being ditzy. I could tell you they're different from AEPhi nationally, due to religious heritage. I could tell you they're different from an AES group like ASA. I think few NPCers, even ones who get squicky about stereotypes, would dispute that. But even the most "tier-based" NPC thinkers would have trouble articulating how Tri-Delta is really different from the other founding members of the NPC.

Maybe that's just a restatement of what I said earlier. meh.

[APhiAnna]

I think that there are definitely some national stereotypes about NPC and IFC organizations at the college level. In particular, I think Kappa, ZTA, KA, Pike, SAE, TKE and Tri-Delt have casually established "blanket stereotypes" that seem to fall in place if a chapter is at least moderately strong on their campus...if they aren't strong on campus then they are viewed as an exception to that stereotype. Going into detail about what these stereotypes are isn't worth it (particularly because there is a negative connotation to most of them), but I think most people that are familiar with strong Greek campuses will catch my drift on those.

That being said I don't think that a membership in a particular NPC or IFC GLO has any sort of meaning to the general population once you leave college. It may be a status symbol to say, "I was an ABC at XYZ University", but certainly just saying "I'm an Alpha Phi" or "I'm a Sigma Chi" doesn't put you into any sort of hierarchy or stereotype. If anything, it lumps you into a stereotype of being Greek (ie, conservative, wealthy, etc).

This is an obvious case of swerving into the wrong lane, but even those outside of the NPHC can pick up that the organization you join has a lot of resonance in the African-American community. I think that saying "I'm an AKA" brings forth many more conclusions and assumptions than saying "I'm an AGD". To speculate why would be out of my league...maybe it's that there are far fewer organizations and that these organizations have more chapters? I really don't know. But I do think that for NPC GLOs, despite national stereotypes, the cultural significance only really resonates when you throw in the campus you joined your GLO at (and that only holds water if somebody is familiar with campus stereotypes).

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by APhiAnna

I think that there are definitely some national stereotypes about NPC and IFC organizations at the college level. In particular, I think Kappa, ZTA, KA, Pike, SAE, TKE and Tri-Delt have casually established "blanket stereotypes" that seem to fall in place if a chapter is at least moderately strong on their campus...if they aren't strong on campus then they are viewed as an exception to that stereotype. Going into detail about what these stereotypes are isn't worth it (particularly because there is a negative connotation to most of them), but I think most people that are familiar with strong Greek campuses will catch my drift on those.

I don't catch your drift at all and I think you're wrong about the NPC orgs.

NIC orgs are a different barrel of fish and I agree with those who have said that there are some more significant national stereotypes there--*FOR SOME NIC ORGS*. Not all. I also agree that KA, Pike, SAE, and TKE would be good examples of ones that have a stereotype nationally among Greeks.

I VERY much disagree that Kappa, ZTA, and Tri-Delt have national stereotypes among Greeks. I've already spoken to the exceptional case of Tri-Delta in the national mindset (not the Greek mindset). I agree that all of these orgs are considered as somewhat "more prestigious" than some others, for better or worse, right or wrong. But I don't see, again, what distinguishes Kappa from Theta. Tri-Delt from ZTA.

If you're willing to share what you think these stereotypes that would be helpful because frankly I think you're wrong.

[breathesgelatin]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Public mind:

A. the majority, which is majority white and nonGreek, and barely knows "black history" not to mention about the existence or stereotypes of NPHC orgs
B. Greeks who are familiar with the NPHC and the stereotypes (which isn't the case for most white Greeks)
C. All Greeks
D. members of NPHC and nonNPHC BGLO members
E. the black community

Which one?

I think she's talking about some combination of B, C, D, and E.

I'm going to bite on this one, somewhat against my better judgment.

I agree with both of you to some extent. Lately there has been some drama on GC regarding NPCers and national "tiers." It is definitely accurate to say that on *SOME LEVEL* people have national ideas of NPC groups.

For example:
- AEPhi and SDT, ON THE WHOLE, often tend to be Jewish (NOT ALWAYS! But OFTEN!). There are a few other examples of this.
- There are some groups, maybe 5-10 as UGAalum mentioned, that people knowledgeable about NPCs might acknowledge to be more "prestigious" - but mostly because they are larger organizations and at more schools or at more prestigious schools. UGAalum has given a great example with Kappa and Theta. They are of similar size and tend to be at most major universities. But what is different about them? Their philanthropies. Their initiation ceremonies. But as a member of another organization that's often compared to Kappa and Theta (Pi Phi), can I really encapsulate any significant national stereotype differences between them? Or between them and my own org? No.
-There are a few NPCs that were formerly educationally based and part of the AES governing organization and joined the NPC at a later date in the 1950s. There are some things that these groups have in common. Members of the former AES groups can give a lot better explanation of this than I can. But again, can I encapsulate what makes all these groups different from one another? No.
-There are a few instances in which a sorority "cracks" the national awareness. The major example of this would be "Delta Delta Delta, can I help ya, help ya, help ya?" But what does this really say about Tri-Delt? That they have a stereotype of being ditzy nationally? OK, maybe for people who only know that skit, but not for anyone who really knows about NPC.

So basically, I think that it may be possible to stereotype groups of NPC sororities - more prestigious ones, ones founded to serve minority religious groups, former AES groups. Some of these stereotypes make GCers uncomfortable and it's not really considered kosher to talk about them. But really distinguishing stereotypes between the sororities in each general grouping? Much harder or impossible to do. Unless you're examining their philanthropies, history, ritual, which I don't consider "stereotypes." And I also think that each NPCs' history is much less likely to be known to members of other NPC orgs than would be the case in NPHC. Educated D9ers tend to know a lot about the founding of all the orgs in their council. Not the case for NPCers, sometimes even very well-versed ones. Partially due to numbers (more to learn for NPCers), partially due to cultural reasons (role of D9 in the black community), partially due to philosophy (more camaraderie between D9ers).

/hijack