Fraternity Rush at Kansas

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

I don't want to turn this into a Sigma Nu thread, but hazing is a big issue when considering a fraternity. SN was founded in 1869 as a protest movement to hazing at Virginia Military Institute. Because of our herritage and history, if there is a hint of hazing at a SN chapter, Headquarters will shut them down. That's what happened a few years ago at Kansas.

That being said, Sigma Nu is a fresh organization with new people committed to our founding principles. I think it is fair to say there will be no hazing there. So a new member would have the benefits of a mature chapter alumni backing (going back to 1884 I think) and living in the old governors mansion, yet it is a new organization with a fresh attitude. That will be a good experience for the right young men.

Not everyone would look upon this as a good thing, especially the fact that your chapter there is a colony (i.e. they are going to suck for 5-10 years.)

[Kedzman]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

Not everyone would look upon this as a good thing, especially the fact that your chapter there is a colony (i.e. they are going to suck for 5-10 years.)

This is one of the most foolish posts ever...

Entreprenureal men seek fresh opportunities. Therefore, Sigma Nu will pull some dynamic leaders right out of the gate. Sigma Nu dominated at Kansas for decades as one of the top fraternities. They have a huge pipeline of legacies that will want to join. They have a great chapter house. They have unlimited alumni resources. Sigma Nu is one of the strongest and most highly regarded national organizations. Sigma Nu has a four-year ethical leadership development program (LEAD) which will be very attractive to mature, ambitious men.

Suggesting "they are going to suck for 5-10 years" is foolishness. I can cite plenty of examples where that thinking is just plain wrong. Check our www.fsupikes.com, for example...

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

This is one of the most foolish posts ever...

Entreprenureal men seek fresh opportunities. Therefore, Sigma Nu will pull some dynamic leaders right out of the gate. Sigma Nu dominated at Kansas for decades as one of the top fraternities. They have a huge pipeline of legacies that will want to join. They have a great chapter house. They have unlimited alumni resources. Sigma Nu is one of the strongest and most highly regarded national organizations. Sigma Nu has a four-year ethical leadership development program (LEAD) which will be very attractive to mature, ambitious men.

Suggesting "they are going to suck for 5-10 years" is foolishness. I can cite plenty of examples where that thinking is just plain wrong. Check our www.fsupikes.com, for example...

I can cite a lot of fallacies with that. People who would otherwise be joining a top-tier house do not join a colony. If I was a legacy to a house that was a colony and got a bid to an established top-tier house, that's where I would be. Sigma Nu (no offense intended) is not one of the organizations that is great everywhere, their Ole Miss chapter may be one of the best chapters of any fraternity in the nation, but top to bottom there are a number which are better (and the recruiting on a greek forum would tend to back that up). Most people looking for a traditional Greek experience aren't looking for a leadership development program instituted by Nationals. And FSU Pike isn't top-tier.

I agree that they will have a very nice house and a rich alumni base, but ANY colony is going to suck for a pretty good period of time. Those who join in the first few years back on campus will have all graduated before it's a good house again.

[Kedzman]

Originally Posted by CrackerBarrel

I can cite a lot of fallacies with that. People who would otherwise be joining a top-tier house do not join a colony. If I was a legacy to a house that was a colony and got a bid to an established top-tier house, that's where I would be. Sigma Nu (no offense intended) is not one of the organizations that is great everywhere, their Ole Miss chapter may be one of the best chapters of any fraternity in the nation, but top to bottom there are a number which are better (and the recruiting on a greek forum would tend to back that up). Most people looking for a traditional Greek experience aren't looking for a leadership development program instituted by Nationals. And FSU Pike isn't top-tier.

I agree that they will have a very nice house and a rich alumni base, but ANY colony is going to suck for a pretty good period of time. Those who join in the first few years back on campus will have all graduated before it's a good house again.

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

My chapter at Northern Illinois www.SigmaNuNIU.com is a top 5 out of 15 fraternities in just 4 semesters after our recolonization. Two of the last three student government presidents have been a Sigma Nu. We've been #1 or #2 in GPA each of the last 4 semesters. We are the 5th largest fraternity in just 4 semesters. To say that a colony "is going to suck for a pretty good period of time" is just silly to say. It's simply not true.

I'm going to chalk up your perceptions to the likelihood that you are young and have limited perspective and experience with Greek affairs. I've been Greek for over 20 years, worked for my national organization, traveled and been a chapter advisor for over a decade and was the primary alumnus spearheading our recolonization effort.

We've got new chapters all over the country that are reaching critical mass and becoming top chapters on their respective campuses.

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

You're a Yankee... you wouldn't understand why FSU Pike isn't considered top tier.

[Kedzman]

Originally Posted by PhiGam

You're a Yankee... you wouldn't understand why FSU Pike isn't considered top tier.

Name-calling is an easy way to identify who has won and who has lost the arguement. Perhaps you can explain such things to a "yankee" like me. Looks like the Pikes at FSU pretty much dominate in all measurable areas. Where am I wrong?

[FSUfiji]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

My chapter at Northern Illinois www.SigmaNuNIU.com is a top 5 out of 15 fraternities in just 4 semesters after our recolonization. Two of the last three student government presidents have been a Sigma Nu. We've been #1 or #2 in GPA each of the last 4 semesters. We are the 5th largest fraternity in just 4 semesters. To say that a colony "is going to suck for a pretty good period of time" is just silly to say. It's simply not true.

I'm going to chalk up your perceptions to the likelihood that you are young and have limited perspective and experience with Greek affairs. I've been Greek for over 20 years, worked for my national organization, traveled and been a chapter advisor for over a decade and was the primary alumnus spearheading our recolonization effort.

We've got new chapters all over the country that are reaching critical mass and becoming top chapters on their respective campuses.

You WOULD post a link up from the website of "one of the highest acheiving" fraternities in the nation. Dont you think if they were THAT damn good they would've updated the website more often than umm.......FOUR YEARS ago? I think that Phi Gam and myself would have a better opinion than any of the people that have posted on this thread bc we are a part of greeklife here at FSU and its not like we are hating on PIKE (I have plenty of friends that are pikes). Yes they are a "good" fraternity but if you have 23 fraternities on a campus there are going to be plenty of those. I would consider "top tier" as top 5......and they dont make the cut. The only reason they are recognized now is bc they have one of the biggest houses on campus and too big a number......thats it.

[Kedzman]

Originally Posted by FSUfiji

You WOULD post a link up from the website of "one of the highest acheiving" fraternities in the nation. Dont you think if they were THAT damn good they would've updated the website more often than umm.......FOUR YEARS ago? I think that Phi Gam and myself would have a better opinion than any of the people that have posted on this thread bc we are a part of greeklife here at FSU and its not like we are hating on PIKE (I have plenty of friends that are pikes). Yes they are a "good" fraternity but if you have 23 fraternities on a campus there are going to be plenty of those. I would consider "top tier" as top 5......and they dont make the cut. The only reason they are recognized now is bc they have one of the biggest houses on campus and too big a number......thats it.

They have won their National Fraternity top award (Smyth Award) six years in a row. I find it hard to believe they have accomplished this and are not a top 5 house at FSU.

How many times has FIJI won your national fraternities top award at FSU?

[PhiGam]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

They have won their National Fraternity top award (Smyth Award) six years in a row. I find it hard to believe they have accomplished this and are not a top 5 house at FSU.

How many times has FIJI won your national fraternities top award at FSU?

Not sure, I'm actually not too fond of my fraternity's nationals (Fun Police). I know we've won shit but its not something that we brag about. Pike is good at IMs because they give bids to kids just because of their athletic ability, even if they're huge tools. They have three high school all americans that play for them in football alone. I'm not going to talk bad about them for my entire post though. Pike here is (too) big and has a cool house but they aren't respected among the traditional fraternities. I'm not going to try to explain how things are different down here so you'll just have to take my word for it. Being big, winning IMs and national awards, and slaying a bunch of TCC girls is probably fun and all but there's intangibles to being top tier that they don't have.

[FSUfiji]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

They have won their National Fraternity top award (Smyth Award) six years in a row. I find it hard to believe they have accomplished this and are not a top 5 house at FSU.

How many times has FIJI won your national fraternities top award at FSU?

They might have been the best or in the top 5 but NOT ANY MORE. They won all those awards 4+ years ago. Yea they do good in IM's but so do alot of other fraternities, what else do they do?

And no FIJI here hasnt received our nationals top award, but we have numerous other awards from our nationals and the university. but we're not talkin about FIJI @ fsu.

like you said top tier is based on the students opinion and the other members of greeklife....... Its not as "blessed from god" as you may think

[CrackerBarrel]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

They have won their National Fraternity top award (Smyth Award) six years in a row. I find it hard to believe they have accomplished this and are not a top 5 house at FSU.

How many times has FIJI won your national fraternities top award at FSU?

National Awards (particularly THE top-house) generally mean the exact opposite, that you almost certainly aren't a top-tier house. If you are doing all the stuff that keeps your nationals happy I can 100% guarantee that you aren't having nearly enough fun.

I know as a Yankee and someone that loves their nationals apparently you are going to disagree with me, but the absolute best houses are generally those that are a big pain in the side of their nationals. They refuse to institute any of the new national "suggestions" which completely change what it means to pledge or be in a fraternity, they are generally in and out of trouble with the school for things like unregistered parties, and the nationals would love to pull their charter, but they can't because it's a 85+ year old chapter that has some of the best alumni support of any active group in the fraternity and is generally seen as one of the flagship houses for that organization.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

OK, I am old, and a northerner (not a Yankee since the Pirates just BEAT them last night LET'S GO BUCS!!) and I'm going to play devil's advocate.

Winning awards from your national fraternity, your school's administration or accolades that often come easiest to the group with the most manpower (i.e. intramurals - of course you can get a good intramural team w/ more guys to choose from) doesn't necessarily make you the best or most popular fraternity where it counts, in the eyes of the students and rushees.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Winning awards from your national fraternity, your school's administration or accolades that often come easiest to the group with the most manpower (i.e. intramurals - of course you can get a good intramural team w/ more guys to choose from) doesn't necessarily make you the best or most popular fraternity where it counts, in the eyes of the students and rushees.

This is exactly right. The concept of top tier is entirely a social one. It is about where your guys come from and what sororities you mix with. That's it.

I also agree to an extent with Elephant Walk about the leadership issue. Back in my time we hated our nationals and wanted nothing to do with them. Currently, members of our chapter are attending some of these leadership conferences and on balance they really like them. For officers, it has helped them in practical ways too- risk management, budgeting etc.

But I do not believe in the "drinking the Kool-aid" kind of stuff. Young men do grow and mature in their fraternity experience if they are inclined to do so, but you have to start with someone who is already leadership or success oriented. Fraternities can offer a place where most members just have fun and a few take on responsibility (as officers) that will help them in their own professional careers. But the idea that we can take a pile of chicken shit and turn it into chicken salad with a few inspirational seminars is silly.

Point being, I do see value in what our nationals offer the chapter these days- and many of the guys want to do it, so I support it. But I also appreciate the fact- as Elephant Walk implies- that if you want to have a solid top tier chapter, you have to start with guys who are solid to begin with. And while so many like to pile on about how top tier fraternities are all about booze and drugs, I should point out that the top houses at Texas with very large numbers still manage to have average GPAs over the all-men's UT average.

It naturally comes with the territory that a top tier house offering the best social opportunity is going to attract people from successful backgrounds who are going to tend to excel in other areas of their lives. And that, to me, makes a lot of the scorn and criticism mere "country club envy."

[Elephant Walk]

Originally Posted by Kedzman

You've lost all credibility. FSU Pikes is one of the highest-achieving fraternities in the nation. Check out this page for proof... http://www.fsupikes.com/chapterachievements.htm
They've won 6 consecutive Smyth awards from their National Fraternity and you say they are not "top-tier" at FSU? They've won the all sports trophy all but one year since their 2001 recolonization and you say they are not "top-tier". Are you nuts?

My chapter at Northern Illinois www.SigmaNuNIU.com is a top 5 out of 15 fraternities in just 4 semesters after our recolonization. Two of the last three student government presidents have been a Sigma Nu. We've been #1 or #2 in GPA each of the last 4 semesters. We are the 5th largest fraternity in just 4 semesters. To say that a colony "is going to suck for a pretty good period of time" is just silly to say. It's simply not true.

I'm going to chalk up your perceptions to the likelihood that you are young and have limited perspective and experience with Greek affairs. I've been Greek for over 20 years, worked for my national organization, traveled and been a chapter advisor for over a decade and was the primary alumnus spearheading our recolonization effort.

We've got new chapters all over the country that are reaching critical mass and becoming top chapters on their respective campuses.

Winning some national trophies is not indicative of top tier.

Generally it means you're somewhere up north, you cave to nationals, and you're probably upper-middle tier there.

The best chapters generally get no recognition from their nationals and wouldn't have it any other way.

The only excellent Sigma Nu chapter in the SEC/ACC is Ole Miss', that I can think of. The Arkansas one isn't terrible anymore.

edit: And I'm in over 91% agreement with CB/Phi Gam/etc.

[banditone]

Originally Posted by Elephant Walk

The only excellent Sigma Nu chapter in the SEC/ACC is Ole Miss', that I can think of. The Arkansas one isn't terrible anymore.

edit: And I'm in over 91% agreement with CB/Phi Gam/etc.

a) Someone needs to find my post on some random thread that had about 10 or so things that determine your "excellence" as a chapter.

b) Also, I need to know these lofty standards you are using and who the “peers” are for Ole Miss Sigma Nu. As far as “good” chapters, I’d like to know what SEC chapters of yours that are THAT much better then:

* South Carolina.
* University of Alabama.
* Auburn University.
* P.S. We get do-overs on campuses we were strong on then got booted off of: (expl: Florida, Georgia, Vandy, LSU)

Sidenote: Arkansas you say is not bottom tier, so I'd assume they aren't horrible. Well, they have only been back on campus for like 2 years maybe? So they weren't horrible for 5 to 10 years.