ouch! anyone else's wallet in pain?

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by TexasWSP

But see......a lot of it isn't. Natural gas, for example, is a clean burning energy and you don't have to completely destroy the environment to get it. The amount of regulatory measures and environmental checks required to even begin drilling a well are incredibly high. Where you used to have to drill a new well every time you wanted to explore in a new location, I can drill one well and explore deposits in tons of areas thanks to horizontal drilling.

Right now, it is worth it in my opinion. The development of alternative fuels is in its infancy, despite the fact that you hear daily about growing numbers of available biofuels, hybrids, etc. To me, we should drill the oil, have us all benefit from it, and then scale it back when alternatives reach a level of usability similar to gasoline. They just aren't there yet. Gas has a very high energy density and is easy to handle at room temperature and pressure, so it presents a very formidable challenge to alternatives at this point, especially in the transportation sector. Take corn for example. If every single acre of corn in our country was used exclusively for ethanol production you would replace less than a quarter of the gasoline used today. The "cleanliness" of it is only slightly less than gasoline anyways.

Something has to be done here, I'll give you that. I was recently talking to a very high up oil executive...everyone here would know the name....and the conversation was scary. He claimed that unless we do something about the energy problem in our country - develop new ones and allow the old ones to thrive for the time being - our economy will be around that of a third world country in the next two to three decades. I'm not saying that it's true, but it is definitely eye opening.

One of the many reasons out wallets are hurting is that corn, and a few other products, are being taken out of the food chain and "used" for other reasons.
The studies I have seen show a "savings" of less than 15% if ALL US grown products were used to replace gas.
And right now, with all the rain in the Mid-West, less than 1/2 of the crop is even in the ground! Way behind planting season.
Add to that the drought in other parts of the world, we will be feeling even worse.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by jon1856

One of the many reasons out wallets are hurting is that corn, and a few other products, are being taken out of the food chain and "used" for other reasons.
The studies I have seen show a "savings" of less than 15% if ALL US grown products were used to replace gas.
And right now, with all the rain in the Mid-West, less than 1/2 of the crop is even in the ground! Way behind planting season.
Add to that the drought in other parts of the world, we will be feeling even worse.

Never mind the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies paid to farmers, who are reaping record profits on their crops, as well - yet we vilify oil companies. It's unreal.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Never mind the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies paid to farmers, who are reaping record profits on their crops, as well - yet we vilify oil companies. It's unreal.

True, it is unreal.
And that DC just is not able to/unwilling to change the Farm bills to correct that matter.
And remember not all farmers are equal. Some of those "farmers" are companies like AMD et al.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by jon1856

One of the many reasons out wallets are hurting is that corn, and a few other products, are being taken out of the food chain and "used" for other reasons.

Sweet Jebus I hate the food/fuel debate. Yes, an increasing amount of corn is being used for biofuels, but is only a small part of the overall increase in costs. There is so much more to the process than OMGYOURETAKINGAWAYFOODFROMSTARVINGBABIESINAFRICA!

And right now, with all the rain in the Mid-West, less than 1/2 of the crop is even in the ground! Way behind planting season.
Add to that the drought in other parts of the world, we will be feeling even worse.

It's predicted this year will be worse than 1993 for flooding in many areas of the Midwest and that was a very bad year for floods.

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Never mind the hundreds of millions of dollars in subsidies paid to farmers, who are reaping record profits on their crops, as well - yet we vilify oil companies. It's unreal.

Rob, I really respect your opinion on most all subjects, and considering you actually live in the state, you have a better understanding of the situation than most. I understand the point you're making, but because of my personal and family attachments to agriculture, I can't agree with you 100%. I hate the fact that the vast majority of the subsidies are going to companies like ADM and Cargill, but even small farmers are benefiting from the recent prices.

Originally Posted by jon1856

True, it is unreal.
And that DC just is not able to/unwilling to change the Farm bills to correct that matter.
And remember not all farmers are equal. Some of those "farmers" are companies like AMD et al.

It will take a few years to actually tell, but I think the most recent farm bill (passed in May) made some decent strides in changing the way subsidies are paid out. And subsidies are only about 14% of the total farm bill. Subsidies and crop insurance together still make up just under 25% of the bill article from yahoo

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by ISUKappa

Rob, I really respect your opinion on most all subjects, and considering you actually live in the state, you have a better understanding of the situation than most. I understand the point you're making, but because of my personal and family attachments to agriculture, I can't agree with you 100%. I hate the fact that the vast majority of the subsidies are going to companies like ADM and Cargill, but even small farmers are benefiting from the recent prices.

The real issue, in my mind, is that it is essentially impossible under the current agriculture system to separate the true "family farmer" from ADM/Cargill and others on the "take" (as it were), leading to a pretty rough system in general - and that's what I'm speaking on, the overall system, since I have no real qualms with the concept of aid for farmers (although that may change once consumption makes market prices high enough to sustain farming as profession on its own).

My first step would be to lower the earnings cap - I believe it's currently set at $1.5 million, which seems insane, but I'd guess you have a much better idea than myself and can correct me if I'm missing some key piece of this.

Next, crop insurance fraud needs to be addressed, as it is somewhere between excessive and rampant, depending on who you believe.

Still, the comparison with Big Oil is really kind of hilarious, especially using the ADM-type situations.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

My first step would be to lower the earnings cap - I believe it's currently set at $1.5 million, which seems insane, but I'd guess you have a much better idea than myself and can correct me if I'm missing some key piece of this.

From what I'm reading in the new farm bill, the caps have been lowered to $500,000 for non-farm income and $750,000 for farm income. source. But I don't know if there are other factors that come into play with those figures.

Crop insurance is going to be a *huge* issue after this summer. Again, from what I'm reading in the new farm bill, there seems to be an improvement in this area as well from previous bills. I will admit I'm not familiar with the specifics of the previous bills. I'm just now starting to educate myself in these areas as the husband and I would eventually like to take over our respective family farms if possible.