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  #511  
Old 02-10-2008, 04:44 PM
VandalSquirrel VandalSquirrel is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skylark View Post
How weird. You know sometimes when you read something and you swear it said something it didn't? Yeah.

Sorry everyone -- Justice O'Connor is the winner of the Screech-clerk.

Still funny.
I think it is a lot funnier because she's retired. I wonder if she has a Greenbag bobble head of herself in her chambers?
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  #512  
Old 02-10-2008, 05:35 PM
skylark skylark is offline
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I've known for a while how hard the SCOTUS clerkship jobs were to get and that they went exclusively to top 5 law school grads. That was something that one of my professors told one of our 1L classes fairly early in my law school career. I think it was because there were some over-zealous gunners in class hinting that they thought they'd make excellent clerks for the supreme court. I did not go to one of the schools known for farming out SCOTUS clerks, so these gunners' dreams needed to be crushed, I think. I think it is sad because I'd sure love to see some more diversity of life experience in the people behind the scenes of the most important legal decisions in the country.

Last I heard, biglaw firms in NY and DC were giving out a set 200K in signing bonuses to ex-SCOTUS law clerks plus some were giving a reimbursement of the salary disparity that clerks would have made during their years as clerks if at their firm.

All I have to say about that is wow.

I remember telling my non-lawyer friends and family that I was going to do a clerkship. I got everything from "is that like a secretarial position?" to "do they pay you for that?" to "I thought you were doing really well in law school." I fully understand why many law clerks (especially federal) are now calling themselves "staff attorneys."

Last edited by skylark; 02-10-2008 at 05:38 PM.
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  #513  
Old 02-13-2008, 12:58 AM
GeekyPenguin GeekyPenguin is offline
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A word to the not 3Ls out there, keep really good track of the following items for the bar exam:

Everywhere you have lived in at least the last 10 years
Every job you have had (paid or unpaid) for at least the last 10 years
Every volunteer experience you have had during the last 10 years

I'm filling out my bar application right now and luckily I kept pretty good notes (thanks to my boyfriend's advice) but I don't remember who my supervisor was when I was frosting cakes in 1998 or who any of my various managers were when I went through five in two years when I sold shoes in high school.

You will thank me for this later!
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  #514  
Old 02-13-2008, 01:27 PM
skylark skylark is offline
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Good luck GeekyPenguin! If your Bar App in your state is anything like mine was, it is a project that is best worked on during several weekends rather than all at once. I actually had to supplement mine after I turned it in to get court records over traffic tickets I'd been given when I was 18-19.

The question that bothered me the most on our bar app was they wanted us to list every college and law school to which we'd been denied admission and explain why we thought we'd been denied admission. I wanted to put on there "WTF, why don't you ask them!"

We also had to have four personal references of people (without relation) that had known us continuously for at least 5 years. My references were all sorority sisters, as I honestly hadn't "continuously" known anyone else since my sophomore year of college. Oh, and you had to send these people forms that basically asked them to swear that you weren't a communist or substance abuser. It was awesome.

To all you 3Ls out there, I feel for ya. It'll all be over soon, though :-)
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  #515  
Old 03-18-2008, 01:45 PM
als463 als463 is offline
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If most places say they usually take up to 3 recs., would it be in bad taste to have one from 5 different sources?

The reason I ask this is because I considered having one from my Undergraduate Professor (History), One from my Graduate Professor (School Law), One from my 1SG (military), One from my present employer (Juvenile Delinquent Boot Camp) and possibly one from my Alumnae Chapter President (sorority-personal). I wanted to give the school my top recommendations and let them know that I really want to go there-so, I figured by giving them 5 from 5 people who know me-that would be good. Any thoughts?

Also, What if you are moving to a different state and your fiancee is going to a big Ivy League University so, you consider the law schools around there and you find one you fall in love with because it offers the kind of law you want and the joint degree in Social Work (MSW) but, it's a 3rd tier...would you not bother applying because it's not a top tier?

People always ask me why I don't consider going to law school at my Undergraduate institution and I tell them it's because they don't offer all the programs I want-which is true. Penn State does not offer an MSW in Social Work. So, is it bad to choose a 3rd tier because of where you will be living and because you LOVE their programs or should you say to hell with it and just apply to mainly top tier schools?

Oh-I want to either work with the FBI as an Attorney working against sex crimes (possibly even with Homeland Security) or as a Guardian Ad Litem for Agencies such as Children & Youth. Any suggestions?
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  #516  
Old 03-18-2008, 02:05 PM
skylark skylark is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by als463 View Post
If most places say they usually take up to 3 recs., would it be in bad taste to have one from 5 different sources?

The reason I ask this is because I considered having one from my Undergraduate Professor (History), One from my Graduate Professor (School Law), One from my 1SG (military), One from my present employer (Juvenile Delinquent Boot Camp) and possibly one from my Alumnae Chapter President (sorority-personal). I wanted to give the school my top recommendations and let them know that I really want to go there-so, I figured by giving them 5 from 5 people who know me-that would be good. Any thoughts?
Part of applying to law school is following directions. If they say "up to 3 recs" then do just that. If you have any doubts, call the admissions offices to double check that it is "up to" and not "at least." Of the ones you described, I'd eliminate the sorority one (unless the school specifically stated that they wanted a personal reference letter) and would pick either your undergraduate or graduate professor. One professor rec, military, then present employer, is sufficiently diverse for law school admissions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by als463
Also, What if you are moving to a different state and your fiancee is going to a big Ivy League University so, you consider the law schools around there and you find one you fall in love with because it offers the kind of law you want and the joint degree in Social Work (MSW) but, it's a 3rd tier...would you not bother applying because it's not a top tier?

People always ask me why I don't consider going to law school at my Undergraduate institution and I tell them it's because they don't offer all the programs I want-which is true. Penn State does not offer an MSW in Social Work. So, is it bad to choose a 3rd tier because of where you will be living and because you LOVE their programs or should you say to hell with it and just apply to mainly top tier schools?

Oh-I want to either work with the FBI as an Attorney working against sex crimes (possibly even with Homeland Security) or as a Guardian Ad Litem for Agencies such as Children & Youth. Any suggestions?
Okay, if there is any chance that you will not be practicing for your first 5 years in the same region as the TTT school, then I would in almost all cases choose the higher tiered school. If you are 100% sure on your career goals, great. Most people change their mind at least slightly when they are at law school and if you don't have strong ties to your region, you may find yourself regretting a choice to attend a TTT school. The major draws are that unless you are graduating in the top 20% of a tier three school, it is extremely hard to find a good job, and you pretty much have to count on your own connections and resources formed through externships or other experiences. Before considering a TTT school, I'd call up their career services and ask for percentages of how many of their graduates end up in positions similar to those that you want to be in.

In very limited circumstances, TTT schools can be an advantage over other higher-ranked schools. IF the TTT school has a really stellar alum base in the area you definitely know you want to practice in and IF you are able to get your education significantly cheaper and IF that school has a good track record in getting their students into jobs like the one you want... then I'd say go for it.

Under any other circumstances, though... you're going to get better opportunities going to a first tier school over a second tier, second tier over third, etc. I wouldn't give too much more credit if School A is ranked #43 and School B is ranked #58... but if you are talking #30 versus #142, I think you need a better reason than a "joint degree program" to make that choice. Joint degree programs are one way to get the diverse education you want and you should definitely ask the schools without those programs what other opportunities they might have that would be comparable to such a degree (clinical programs, pro bono program opportunities, externship programs, etc.)
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  #517  
Old 03-18-2008, 02:06 PM
unspokenone25 unspokenone25 is offline
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No, I don't think it's in bad taste to have 3 recs from different sources but if they say they want only 3, give them just that. It's about following directions. The recommendations from all different sources shows to them that you are a diverse candidate. I would pick one from the military, one from school (pick from undergrad or grad but not both), and the alumnae chapter president recommendation.

Apply to schools in which you know that you are going to be happy (or semi-content) spending three years there. You will have no life once you start law school until after you take the Bar in your respective state. Also, leave open the possibility that once you get into law school that you might change your mind regarding the type of law you want to practice. It happened to me and a lot of my friend during law school. You can apply to all top tiers but I think you should apply to a couple that are lower tier as a just in case.

Quote:
Originally Posted by als463 View Post
If most places say they usually take up to 3 recs., would it be in bad taste to have one from 5 different sources?

The reason I ask this is because I considered having one from my Undergraduate Professor (History), One from my Graduate Professor (School Law), One from my 1SG (military), One from my present employer (Juvenile Delinquent Boot Camp) and possibly one from my Alumnae Chapter President (sorority-personal). I wanted to give the school my top recommendations and let them know that I really want to go there-so, I figured by giving them 5 from 5 people who know me-that would be good. Any thoughts?

Also, What if you are moving to a different state and your fiancee is going to a big Ivy League University so, you consider the law schools around there and you find one you fall in love with because it offers the kind of law you want and the joint degree in Social Work (MSW) but, it's a 3rd tier...would you not bother applying because it's not a top tier?

People always ask me why I don't consider going to law school at my Undergraduate institution and I tell them it's because they don't offer all the programs I want-which is true. Penn State does not offer an MSW in Social Work. So, is it bad to choose a 3rd tier because of where you will be living and because you LOVE their programs or should you say to hell with it and just apply to mainly top tier schools?

Oh-I want to either work with the FBI as an Attorney working against sex crimes (possibly even with Homeland Security) or as a Guardian Ad Litem for Agencies such as Children & Youth. Any suggestions?
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  #518  
Old 03-18-2008, 02:46 PM
Still BLUTANG Still BLUTANG is offline
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i've written one rec for the Exam and i felt honored that i was asked!
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  #519  
Old 03-18-2008, 10:31 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Any ideas on how to fund myself over the summer? I have one internship offer (unpaid) so far in another state-- can't get any money from school or family. I will prob end up getting a PT job, but I was wondering if there are any pvt school loans I can take out or scholarships? Most deadlines for public svc scholarships seem to have passed. Thanks!
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  #520  
Old 03-18-2008, 11:08 PM
skylark skylark is offline
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Originally Posted by adpiucf View Post
Any ideas on how to fund myself over the summer? I have one internship offer (unpaid) so far in another state-- can't get any money from school or family. I will prob end up getting a PT job, but I was wondering if there are any pvt school loans I can take out or scholarships? Most deadlines for public svc scholarships seem to have passed. Thanks!
Some schools will let you get class credit if you do a minimal amount of additional journaling, etc. Once you get a certain amount of credits approved, you can get a student loan for the summer. It certainly isn't as good as a public interest stipend (what I did my first summer when I worked for legal aid), but it is better than starving and living out of your car (or spending late nights with a PT job in addition to trying to impress someone at an internship).

Another option: stay in contact with your career services office and let him/her know that if any contract legal work comes across his/her desk you'd be very interested. It can make for some good extra cash in your off-hours.
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  #521  
Old 03-19-2008, 01:33 AM
deadbear80 deadbear80 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by als463 View Post
If most places say they usually take up to 3 recs., would it be in bad taste to have one from 5 different sources?
YES! The easiest way to get rejected...not following directions! Law schools have umpteen number of applications to read. If you attempt to make their job harder, they'll just do the easy thing and reject without really reading it.

I'm assuming you're applying for Fall 2009 admission since it's a little late for Fall 2008.

As far as the joint degree thing...I did a joint MSW/JD program at a Tier 1 school (Top 20) with a Social Work School ranked in the Top 5. I passed up a lucrative scholarship at a Tier 3 so I could attend this other school. There is NO way I would've gotten my job had I gone to the Tier 3. I also passed up a Tier 2 that had a joint program (the money offered between the Tier 1 and Tier 2 was about the same) because I didn't enjoy the Tier 2 program offerings as much. I happen to now work in the city with the Tier 2 program and I can guarantee that having gone to the Tier 1 school actually set me apart from a lot of other candidates. It's not just about the JD ranking, you should be looking carefully at the Social Work ranking too! They both matter. Top schools with top JD AND MSW programs are well known no matter where you go. Tier 3 schools...not so much (unless like someone else said, you're staying within the area for the next 5 years and people know the school well). Even if you want to do public interest work--jobs are incredibly competitive and the school names on your resume will have an effect on your future hiring.

If you're looking at schools near any of the Ivys, there are definitely Tier 1 or Tier 2 JD/MSW programs at least 2-3 hours or less driving distance from each of them (that aren't the Ivys themselves...although Penn and Columbia both have set JD/MSW programs). Some of them are even in the same general town/area as Ivys (e.g. both Boston U and Boston College have JD/MSW programs; so does NYU).

While where you go to school may not matter for your 2nd or 3rd job; it has a big effect on Job #1 (which will then help with later jobs).
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  #522  
Old 03-24-2008, 11:38 AM
als463 als463 is offline
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Thank you for all the advice. My sister told me I should check out moving my LSATs up to October (instead of having it in December) so I can get a head start on my applications. My Graduate GPA is very good-especially compared to my Undergraduate GPA. If anyone has attended Syracuse or Widener Law-that would be helpful if they would want to talk to me about it. I am also looking at "Top Tier" schools, as well-but, I went to the Widener Open House and fell in love....I really like Syracuse, as well. Any advice on either of those institutions, Temple University or Rutgers-would be GREAT! Thank you so much and everyone have a WONDERFUL DAY!
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  #523  
Old 03-26-2008, 02:49 PM
adpiucf adpiucf is offline
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Your graduate GPA won't be considered as anything but a soft factor, similar to whether you have had work experience or won some special award, campus leadership, community involvement.

Take your LSAT as early as you feel ready so you can have the option to retake and/or get your applications in earlier.

Your application will largely be based on 1) LSAT score and 2) undergraduate GPA. Many schools give some additional weight to historically underrepresented minorities (specifically: Black, Latino, Native American). Other than that, your personal statement, recommendations, resume and soft factors will be considered with considerably less weight. However, they may be a tie-breaker if you are a borderline candidate at a school.

There's a big difference between your chances at getting into Syracuse or Widener and a top tier school like Columbia. See where your LSAT places you and then you can decide which schools to apply to from there.

Good luck!!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by als463 View Post
Thank you for all the advice. My sister told me I should check out moving my LSATs up to October (instead of having it in December) so I can get a head start on my applications. My Graduate GPA is very good-especially compared to my Undergraduate GPA. If anyone has attended Syracuse or Widener Law-that would be helpful if they would want to talk to me about it. I am also looking at "Top Tier" schools, as well-but, I went to the Widener Open House and fell in love....I really like Syracuse, as well. Any advice on either of those institutions, Temple University or Rutgers-would be GREAT! Thank you so much and everyone have a WONDERFUL DAY!
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  #524  
Old 05-17-2008, 03:52 PM
KSigkid KSigkid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by als463 View Post
Thank you for all the advice. My sister told me I should check out moving my LSATs up to October (instead of having it in December) so I can get a head start on my applications. My Graduate GPA is very good-especially compared to my Undergraduate GPA. If anyone has attended Syracuse or Widener Law-that would be helpful if they would want to talk to me about it. I am also looking at "Top Tier" schools, as well-but, I went to the Widener Open House and fell in love....I really like Syracuse, as well. Any advice on either of those institutions, Temple University or Rutgers-would be GREAT! Thank you so much and everyone have a WONDERFUL DAY!
I know a couple of people who went to Syracuse, including an adjunct for one of my classes, and they really liked it. I haven't heard much about Widener though.

One thing to keep in mind, when choosing schools, is where in the country you want to practice. If you want to stay in the area of the school (i.e., upstate New York for Syracuse), then it's not such a big deal, but if you want to go to another area, you're going to have to do very well for grades.

Now, that doesn't mean that you're out of luck if you want to go to another area of the country; it just means that, depending on where you want to go, you may have to ratchet up the grades accordingly. Just try to make sure you're going somewhere where you'll be happy and be intellectually challenged. Law school is too much work to end up somewhere where you'll be miserable.

Wherever you go, good luck with the process, and feel free to shoot me a PM if you have any questions.
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  #525  
Old 06-05-2008, 12:39 PM
shinerbock shinerbock is offline
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The most important advice for people interested in law school (IMO, of course):


-Be smart when deciding where to go, or whether to go. If you can get into a top 20 school, then sure, take the leap, take the big loans if necessary, and go ahead and do it.

-If you're looking at top 25-50 schools, just be smart. If you can go to the 35th best school at in state rates, and the job prospects are strong, don't go to the 30th best school with similar prospects at 3x the cost.

-If you're looking at schools in the 50-100 range, be careful. You want to go to the best school you can, for the cheapest amount. In this range jobs will be a little harder to come by. Pay attention to location. The 50th best law school located 250 miles from the nearest major city may mean nothing compared to a school ranked 65 in a major metro area, if that school has a strong reputation there.

-If your realistic range is 100-200, be EXTREMELY careful. Try for scholarships, and consider financial info carefully. Again, consider area. If you are in a situation where you're looking at 100-150k of debt for one of these lower tier schools, I simply wouldn't recommend going unless:
A) You have a guaranteed job coming out, or have substantial personal wealth.
B) You want to be a lawyer, regardless of the cost or how much you end up making.
C) You're 99.99% positive you can finish in the top 15% of your class (be realistic).
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