Status of all-male chapters

[arvid1978]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

Sounds to me like you're making excuses to what should have been (or at least appeared to be) an unqualified promise. In other words, that promise had no disclaimers or riders when it was originally made, and you're trying to interpret that promise as if it did. Just be honest and tell us that you don't want to regard that promise as being valid because you don't think it's relevant in 2008 and doesn't fit APO's politically correct public image.

Frankly, that adds insult to injury on the whole issue. You may not agree what what the all-male constituency and issues thereof stand for, but don't sit here and tell us we didn't understand what the promise made to entailed. That's kinda offensive.

ETA: if Title IX was as big an issue as everyone here (or better yet, APO as a whole) is making it out to be, the mandate that all chapters become co-ed would've took effect December 30, 1976 (not 1986 or 2006).

You're absolutely right I don't find that promise to be relevant in 2008. There are lots of things that were relevant in the past that no longer work today. What you're advocating is like saying even though we passed the 14th amendment to the constitution, we never should have struck down separate-but-equal because we made a promise to those who came before us that integration would never happen. That is what you are saying from my perspective.

Times change, and APO does not exist solely in a vacuum or a time capsule. It was wrong to not fully open the door to women 30 years ago, but I'm glad the students of today have enough vision to correct the errors of the past.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by arvid1978

You're absolutely right I don't find that promise to be relevant in 2008. There are lots of things that were relevant in the past that no longer work today. What you're advocating is like saying even though we passed the 14th amendment to the constitution, we never should have struck down separate-but-equal because we made a promise to those who came before us that integration would never happen. That is what you are saying from my perspective.

Times change, and APO does not exist solely in a vacuum or a time capsule. It was wrong to not fully open the door to women 30 years ago, but I'm glad the students of today have enough vision to correct the errors of the past.

By your own admission, you just said that the brotherhood doesn't have the integrity to keep its own word, relevant or otherwise. The vote to go co-ed in '76 was contingent upon the all-male chapters remaining all-male. The all-male constituency (AMC) held their end of the bargain, the co-ed constituency (CEC) reneged on their end. Yet the CEC wants to play the moral card on the AMC by saying what they're doing is discriminatory while not only allowing it to happen for 30 years (if being all-male was so evil, why did you co-sign on it for so long), but breaking their promise which serves as the basis for APO to even be a co-ed organization to begin with.

The CEC is no better than the AMC when they knowingly and willingly broke their word to justify a guise of being morally correct. In other words, they manipulated the AMC in order to go co-ed, then broke their word to serve their own selfish interests and ends.

It is for this reason, that I cannot accept the vote mandating all chapters becoming co-ed. I must respect the vote by virtue that it adhered to the Fraternity bylaws as far as protocol and procedure, but I cannot accept it due to the dirty politics involved.

The AMC OTOH had no other sin than remaining all-male, which we were allowed to do all along. The CEC played their trump card by admitting by default that the co-edness APO was nothing more than a manipulative power play; which I had suspected even when I was relatively young in the frat, but with the chickens coming home to roost, made it all the more clear as time progressed.

One of the poster here said the AMC lost. Considering the dishonest tactics involved, I have to ask, "Did they really?" If they did, it was a hollow victory for the CEC.

That's politics for you. Down and dirty.