Sean Bell's Killers (NYC Cops) Walk

[NappyBison]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

well unfortunately...he was drunk

This is true...but what man doesn't have a few drinks at his bachelor party? I know it had to be obvious that Bell wasn't sober enough to respond as quickly as the officers wanted him too. I guess what I'm trying to determine, is what was the trigger that sent bullets flying???

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

This is true...but what man doesn't have a few drinks at his bachelor party? I know it had to be obvious that Bell wasn't sober enough to respond as quickly as the officers wanted him too. I guess what I'm trying to determine, is what was the trigger that sent bullets flying???

You know what...that's the part we DONT know.

being as the officers were moving in on Bell and his friends because they suspected them of going to get some weapons, what would have stopped them from fully displaying badges and also calling in uniformed cops to detain these guys?

Just because someone says "go get my gun" doesn't mean that they have one.

matter of fact...check this article out:


NYPD Lieutenant's shocking recollection at Sean Bell trial


The leader of the NYPD detectives who killed Sean Bell in a 50-bullet barrage testified Friday he didn't hear his men identify themselves as cops before they opened fire.

Lt. Gary Napoli, the hapless leader of the undercover unit that night, also said he "didn't see any badges" in plain view before the cops shot Bell on his wedding day.

"Did you hear any police commands?" prosecutor Charles Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli said.

"Did you ever hear any shouts, 'Police!' 'Don't move!" Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli replied again.

The stunning admission came on the fourth day of the 50-shot trial, which began with Napoli being forced to identify accused detectives Michael Oliver, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper by name.

Then Napoli, who was not charged with a crime but has been accused of incompetence, gave his version of events that culminated with the death of the 23-year-old groom-to-be outside a seedy Queens strip joint on Nov. 25, 2006.

Napoli's team was doing a sting at the Kalua Cabaret on 94th Ave., where Bell - a father of two - was having his bachelor party.

In earlier testimony, Napoli admitted the ill-fated operation was poorly planned but he was determined to make one more arrest so they could padlock the club.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...lection_a.html

[NappyBison]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know what...that's the part we DONT know.

being as the officers were moving in on Bell and his friends because they suspected them of going to get some weapons, what would have stopped them from fully displaying badges and also calling in uniformed cops to detain these guys?

Just because someone says "go get my gun" doesn't mean that they have one.

Cosign Cosign Cosign!


smh

IMHO, I bet Bell or one of his aquaintances made some sort of gesture that the police probably misread (I use that term loosely) and things escalated from that point forward. Have these cops been placed on any type of suspension since the incident???

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

You know what...that's the part we DONT know.

being as the officers were moving in on Bell and his friends because they suspected them of going to get some weapons, what would have stopped them from fully displaying badges and also calling in uniformed cops to detain these guys?

Just because someone says "go get my gun" doesn't mean that they have one.

matter of fact...check this article out:


NYPD Lieutenant's shocking recollection at Sean Bell trial


The leader of the NYPD detectives who killed Sean Bell in a 50-bullet barrage testified Friday he didn't hear his men identify themselves as cops before they opened fire.

Lt. Gary Napoli, the hapless leader of the undercover unit that night, also said he "didn't see any badges" in plain view before the cops shot Bell on his wedding day.

"Did you hear any police commands?" prosecutor Charles Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli said.

"Did you ever hear any shouts, 'Police!' 'Don't move!" Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli replied again.

The stunning admission came on the fourth day of the 50-shot trial, which began with Napoli being forced to identify accused detectives Michael Oliver, Gescard Isnora and Marc Cooper by name.

Then Napoli, who was not charged with a crime but has been accused of incompetence, gave his version of events that culminated with the death of the 23-year-old groom-to-be outside a seedy Queens strip joint on Nov. 25, 2006.

Napoli's team was doing a sting at the Kalua Cabaret on 94th Ave., where Bell - a father of two - was having his bachelor party.

In earlier testimony, Napoli admitted the ill-fated operation was poorly planned but he was determined to make one more arrest so they could padlock the club.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...lection_a.html

And this was the Boss who on the stand stated that he hid under his seat while the shoot was going on and once it stopped walked up to the officers and did not even ask what just happened.

[shinerbock]

Of course saying "go get my gun" doesn't mean they have one, but if you've heard that, and someone makes some sudden movement in a tense situation, it can certainly create reasonable fear for your life.

I still don't see how this shooting is anything other than absurd, but I don't think that statement can be discounted.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Of course saying "go get my gun" doesn't mean they have one, but if you've heard that, and someone makes some sudden movement in a tense situation, it can certainly create reasonable fear for your life.

I still don't see how this shooting is anything other than absurd, but I don't think that statement can be discounted.

still doesn't mean you fire reload and keep firing

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

still doesn't mean you fire reload and keep firing

And clearly I didn't say anything that would give rise to such an inference.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

And clearly I didn't say anything that would give rise to such an inference.

"reasonable fear for your life"?


mmmkay

SHOOT TIL SAFE

April 7, 2008 -- The NYPD trains its officers to continue firing their weapons until a target no longer poses a threat, an expert will testify this week at the trial of three officers charged in the 50-shot killing of Sean Bell.

The witness, an expert in police training and tactics, will explain when police officers "can use deadly force," said a defense source.

He is also expected to contradict the prosecution's claim that the officers should have fired just three times and then stopped to assess the situation.

"It's a ridiculous notion of firing three shots and then stopping, which is never taught in the Police Department," the source said.

Detective Michael Oliver fired 31 times and Detective Gescard Isnora 11 times during the chaotic events of Nov. 25, 2006, outside the Kalua strip club in Jamaica. Both are charged with manslaughter. Detective Michael Cooper, who fired four times, is charged with reckless endangerment. Two other cops fired a total of four bullets.

http://www.nypost.com/seven/04072008...ted_105371.htm

[NappyBison]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Of course saying "go get my gun" doesn't mean they have one, but if you've heard that, and someone makes some sudden movement in a tense situation, it can certainly create reasonable fear for your life.

I still don't see how this shooting is anything other than absurd, but I don't think that statement can be discounted.

Yes this is true, and given the circumstances I'd be wary of Bell and his friends if I was an officer on the scene. Police training should tell you that after at least one shot, you've successfully disabled your target to say the least After the first round did they think Bell was still a "threat" to their lives????

Come on!

NYPD is notorious for using excessive force throughout history. They're comparable to a watered-down version of the Ku Klux Klan if you ask me.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

Yes this is true, and given the circumstances I'd be wary of Bell and his friends if I was an officer on the scene. Police training should tell you that after at least one shot, you've successfully disabled your target to say the least After the first round did they think Bell was still a "threat" to their lives????

Come on!

Next time you have a conversation with an officer or perhaps a solder/Marine, ask them that question.
I know that I can not give you the answer that you deserve or are looking for. And a strongly suspect that very few posters on GC can either.

I am aware of studies on that very matter however.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

Yes this is true, and given the circumstances I'd be wary of Bell and his friends if I was an officer on the scene. Police training should tell you that after at least one shot, you've successfully disabled your target to say the least After the first round did they think Bell was still a "threat" to their lives????

Come on!

I think the amount of shots is certainly worthy of high scrutiny, but I disagree with what you're saying.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting multiple times, especially if you think the other person has a gun. Unless you completely stop the threat with one round, you keep going. I think that is a big problem in these cases, because if they can explain away firing initially, it is difficult to say the amount of rounds fired changes it from self-defense to anything else.

[NappyBison]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I think the amount of shots is certainly worthy of high scrutiny, but I disagree with what you're saying.

Anything worth shooting is worth shooting multiple times, especially if you think the other person has a gun. Unless you completely stop the threat with one round, you keep going. I think that is a big problem in these cases, because if they can explain away firing initially, it is difficult to say the amount of rounds fired changes it from self-defense to anything else.

I don't think "anything worth shooting" is worth shooting multiple times. Especially from the professional standpoint of an officer of the law. A shooting such as this is expecting of rival gangs who harbor hate behind their bullets. Self-defense is just a crutch that the NYPD has used for years to justify wrongful slaughters such as these.

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by NappyBison

NYPD is notorious for using excessive force throughout history. They're comparable to a watered-down version of the Ku Klux Klan if you ask me.

Could you send me a PM with any kind of documention on this?

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by jon1856

Could you send me a PM with any kind of documention on this?

5 unarmed suspects (that was reported) gunned down in 10 years...1 cop convicted in all that time...not too much more you need.

Amadou Diallo
Patrick Dorismond
Ousmane Zongo
Timothy Stansbury
Sean Bell

And the city has paid close to 12 million out to these families in that time.....

[NappyBison]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

NYPD Lieutenant's shocking recollection at Sean Bell trial


The leader of the NYPD detectives who killed Sean Bell in a 50-bullet barrage testified Friday he didn't hear his men identify themselves as cops before they opened fire.

Lt. Gary Napoli, the hapless leader of the undercover unit that night, also said he "didn't see any badges" in plain view before the cops shot Bell on his wedding day.

"Did you hear any police commands?" prosecutor Charles Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli said.

"Did you ever hear any shouts, 'Police!' 'Don't move!" Testagrossa asked.

"No," Napoli replied again.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/ny_c...lection_a.html

Thanks for the link

I'm wondering if police are required to make any formal orders which would reveal their identities before advancing towards any suspect/citizen especially with drawn weapons?