Home Schooling Declared Illegal in CA!

[honeychile]

SWTXBelle, I agree with you 100%. Pretty much every parent I know who has the time and ability home schools their children. The two biggest arguments against it seem to be that the children aren't properly socialized, and that the parents can't keep up with the school work. Well, I can only speak for those children I know, in California, Texas, Pennsylvania, Ohio, and Virginia, but each have VERY strong groups of fellow home schoolers, and they meet at least twice a month - along with the normal scouts, teams, dance, etc. Maybe they aren't socialized like most children - they're all so darn respectful and polite, and not just when someone's looking! As for the material, just take a look at the parents' manuals. Home schooled children are usually MORE prepared for tests and such, since they have to be tested quite often to make sure that they're keeping up.

People don't look to see the "why" of homeschooling; they just see it as being different. We're tolerant of race, creed, and orientation, but not of someone willing to stay home to teach these valuable lessons themselves.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

What am I basing that on? Maybe the fact that when I graduated with my B.A. in English I had TWICE as many English courses under my belt than someone "certified" to teach. Maybe on the fact that while I am considered unfit to teach public school, I got to spend 13 years flunking graduates of public school in college. (I can't tell you how many of them couldn't even write a decent paragraph, had no idea what subject/verb agreement was, or a thesis)Or perhaps the 7 years I spent teaching AP English to private school students who went on to become National Merit Scholars, Scholastic Writing Award winners, and Academic team state champions, not to mention the litany of top-ranked schools they went on to attend. Maybe my experience with the education majors who took a few English classes with me as I went for my graduate degree - and who complained about having to write papers every week, and were amazed that we had to write a thesis and have a comprehensive examination - neither of which they were required to do.

So in other words, even though you don't have a high school teaching cert, you were a college professor? In other words, you have TAUGHT others and know how to do it. That's a little different.

The homeschooling parents that I (and most other people) am not cool with are the ones who barely got through HS themselves and have no ability to educate. Just because you know what to do, doesn't mean you can teach others to do it.

I wish that the homeschooling parents who ARE doing it right would crack down on the ones who are doing it wrong. It might have more weight coming from them.

The thing I like least about homeschooling (and school choice in general) is that it seems to be teaching our children that if something doesn't work, just walk away from it - don't try to fix it.

[bejazd]

I'm all for parent involvement and attempting to fix the problems: in my ideal world we'd have great community based schools in all communities...but the reality of it is that some communities either can't or won't support their local schools (for example, making sure your child goes to school fed, bathed, ready to learn and willing to participate in the learning process.) The other very troubling issue I've encountered as my children have gone from kindergarten to HS is that school administrations and teachers say they want parent involvement, yet what they really want is parents to act as booster clubs raising money to pay for the things we parents want the state legislature to budget and pay for: music, arts, science, vocational training etc.

There have been so many times I've been so incredibly frustrated by the bureaucracy of all it. In my community, one HS has gone charter as an attempt by the community to reclaim the school from the lameness of the school district and teacher's union and their constant squabbling. It's almost as if everyone forgot about the students. That's why I'm for school choice- it's the parents last best hope of actually holding educators responsible for getting the job done.

Of course the news here is full of stories of all the teachers that just got warning notices that they could be laid off next fall due to the state's budget crisis. One teacher was on the lamenting that she just couldn't work with this "black cloud" hanging over her, and "all they care about is test scores!" HELLOOO! Yes, everyday, people go to work not knowing if they'll have a job tomorrow, and yes, their employers do care about their performance every day that they are actually getting paid to show up at work. Welcome to the real world.

[33girl]

The thing is....the teachers/admin are not the ones who cut music and art programs. The teachers/admin are not the ones mandating standardized tests (or should I say, elevating standardized tests above where they should be). A lot of the time that comes down from the state or federal government.

If we keep pulling our kids out of the public schools, we lose any rights to say what we think should happen there and things just get worse. I hate to think that this country is going to go back to the days of education being a privilege for the rich, but it's happening as we speak.

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

What will all those kids who are wanna-be Hollywood stars do??? They can't possibly star in feature films AND go to school at the same time!

Certified tutors.

I had some friend issues in for a year or so in high school and begged my parents to homeschool me. Parents were completely against it.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The thing is....the teachers/admin are not the ones who cut music and art programs. The teachers/admin are not the ones mandating standardized tests (or should I say, elevating standardized tests above where they should be). A lot of the time that comes down from the state or federal government.

If we keep pulling our kids out of the public schools, we lose any rights to say what we think should happen there and things just get worse. I hate to think that this country is going to go back to the days of education being a privilege for the rich, but it's happening as we speak.

Ditto.

My siblings and I were educated in a poorly resourced public school system. We were surrounded by some kids of different socioeconomic and family backgrounds who were real badasses with horrendous grades. Frustrated teachers and all of that. Instead of taking us out of this structure and sending us to private or gifted schools (my parents don't agree with home schooling), they kept us there. They wanted to stay involved with these schools so that they could challenge them to change. We were urged to associate with the other kids in the National Honor Society and honors courses but of course we felt peer pressure from being surrounded by the kids who didn't think school was important. We were taught some great stuff because there were some EXCELLENT teachers and our parents reinforced what we were taught when we came home (without needing to home school us). If there was something the school didn't teach, my parents who are college educators gave us books and talked to us about the stuff so we could be exposed to it.

All of this without home schooling. We learned how to adjust to successes and failures, be around others who don't share our background (even if our interactions were restricted to school hours), and to work toward a common goal without axing the idea altogether.

[bejazd]

Originally Posted by 33girl

The thing is....the teachers/admin are not the ones who cut music and art programs. .

It's not that simple...the teachers (through their unions) do sabotage the success of certain programs that parents feel are important and keep kids in school...for example, in my district, the teachers union will not allow any uncredentialed instructor to be paid by the district. Therefore, parents must pick up the tab for hiring an assistant band director, dance/color guard instructors, or coaches. The result? Parents picked up the tab. The district now is off the hook for budgeting for the music program. It goes along for a few years until the parents get fed up with fundraising up the wazoo all the time to pay for what we feel the school should be providing. Ultimately, music programs are being killed in the public schools in just this way...while the public charter school has the freedom to hire whoever they want, because they don't have to deal with the teacher's union.

The only time I feel like I actually have a say is I can control my own children's education. by doing exactly what DSTchaos's parents did..and when I vote on election day. The rest of the time we're pretty much at the mercy of the public school system as it is.

[MysticCat]

Originally Posted by bejazd

It's not that simple...the teachers (through their unions) do sabotage the success of certain programs that parents feel are important and keep kids in school...for example, in my district, the teachers union will not allow any uncredentialed instructor to be paid by the district.

That is, of course, if you live somewhere that teachers can unionize. Where I live, they can't -- and most that I've ever heard comment on it like it that way.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bejazd

It's not that simple...the teachers (through their unions) do sabotage the success of certain programs that parents feel are important and keep kids in school...for example, in my district, the teachers union will not allow any uncredentialed instructor to be paid by the district. Therefore, parents must pick up the tab for hiring an assistant band director, dance/color guard instructors, or coaches. The result? Parents picked up the tab. The district now is off the hook for budgeting for the music program. It goes along for a few years until the parents get fed up with fundraising up the wazoo all the time to pay for what we feel the school should be providing. Ultimately, music programs are being killed in the public schools in just this way...while the public charter school has the freedom to hire whoever they want, because they don't have to deal with the teacher's union.

The only time I feel like I actually have a say is I can control my own children's education. by doing exactly what DSTchaos's parents did..and when I vote on election day. The rest of the time we're pretty much at the mercy of the public school system as it is.

The issue there is not the school administration, or (I would wager) the majority of the teachers themselves. The issue is what the union tells them they can and cannot do, and the heads of the union do NOT always speak for all the teachers.

Trust me...I live in Pennsylvania...my home school district went through one of the ugliest teacher/school board debates in the history of the state. It tore our town apart. I'm not saying the unions are perfect, but they were created for a reason.

Doesn't your district hire teachers with an eye to what else they can do? All I heard from my friends when they went for jobs is that unless they can coach or do something else extracurricular they couldn't get a job.

[bejazd]

[quote=33girl;1619700]The issue there is not the school administration, or (I would wager) the majority of the teachers themselves. The issue is what the union tells them they can and cannot do, and the heads of the union do NOT always speak for all the teachers.]

Well they DO elect their own union leaders...and the district admin and parents have absolutely zero control on that one so the teachers have to own the actions of their own union. Do the math teachers care if the music program bites the dust? probably not. But they DO care when parents get so fed up with the mediocrity of the school that they seek alternatives...kids not in their school = less ADA money = less need for teachers. Home schooling and charter schools provide options for those parents that just don't have it in them anymore to battle what seems like a never ending political situation where students are often at the bottom of anyone's priority list.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by bejazd

Do the math teachers care if the music program bites the dust? probably not.

I disagree, and I am guessing the majority of teachers on here would too.

And sororities elect their own leaders as well, but I will say that some of the decisions my leaders (chapter and national) have made certainly weren't ones I agreed with.

Oh, and that guy in the White House? Elected him too, and, well....

[SWTXBelle]

I still pay the taxes that pay for public education. Therefore, I have a stake, and a right to complain about the system, whether or not I my children are in the system. In fact, every person, parent or not, who is interested in the good of our society should have a voice in determining what to do with public education.
The vast majority of homeschooling parents I know, with a wide range of educational backgrounds, are very good at teaching their children. Teaching your own children is different than trying to manage a class of 20+ kids - and requires a different skill set. The vast majority work with other home schoolers, and you'll find classes and consortiums that mean if you feel weak in a particular subject you can insure your child gets a quality education. I don't speak Italian, yet my daughter learned through a top-notch curriculum (and with the help of a friend of hers in Italy). Home schoolers are very creative in finding opportunities for their children, and taking advantage of the community in which they live and the greater home schooling world.
You'll never convince me that every holder of an education degree is a good teacher - you really don't need me to pull the data on that, do you? - and the same teachers' unions that fight the idea of competency testing for their members tooth and nail are the same ones who want to establish some form of competency requirements for home schoolers. Yes, there are homeschooling parents who do not do a good job, but they are the minority. There are plenty of public schools who are not doing a good job, and until that is not the case I really don't think that public educators should worry about private schools or home schoolers.
The answer is not subjecting home schooled children to the same testing (a la "No Child Left Behind" - ha!) we put our public schooled students through. One of the joys of home schooling is not having curriculum dictated to you - being free to take your child's interest and run with it. Testing doesn't insure that public schooled students are receiving a quality education, and I would argue that it actually gets in the way.
I have a sister in law with a Master's degree in education who was frustrated because she had to give up teaching science to her class in the spring because it was not on the state tests. Think about that - subjects such as history and science (not to mention p.e., music and the arts) being given short shrift because they are not on the tests.
I know many dedicated, educated public teachers who are totally hamstrung by the levels of administrative bureaucracy, the dictates of people in ivory towers in Washington D.C., and whatever the latest fad in education is. They are understandably frustrated, and many of them send their children to private schools. Too often the system doesn't give the best teachers the support they need, and we end up losing them or they end up burning out.
One of my sorority sisters is back working as a paralegal after a year of teaching after getting her certification. The lack of support from her administration and the level of discipline problems lead her to leave after only a year. I'm most familiar with the Houston ISD - where there are 2 administrators for every teacher. Is that in the students' best interest? I don't think so. I think it's a tragic waste of money.
I firmly believe that local control is the best way to make sure students receive the education they need. With the exception of a few nutcases, parents are the ones most invested in their children receiving a good education. Most parents, and most communities, are best able to dictate what is in their children's best interests. That's why I support the right of parents to decide how their children should be educated -whether it is public, private, or home schooling. (And this from the grand-daughter of a public school superintendent and Texas State School board member!)

[ZTAMich]

I was homeschooled for a year during 4th grade. The private school I attended became too expensive for my parents and they did not want to throw me into our local public school with the school year already started. I thank them a lot for having the foresight about that. It was only for a year as my sisters were little and my mom was a bit overwhelmed, trying to help me 'go to school' during their nap times. I wasn't very motivated that year. My mom had a teaching background, taught middle school for a while before leaving to be a SAHM.
I knew a family growing up that homeschooled all 3 of their children bc they did not like their local public school. The mom received some training but didn't need a lot since the program they used included videos of lessons for their kids recorded in a real classroom. We all were socialized in a homeschooling group with kids our age a few times a month where we went on field trips, did a science fair, etc. One mom even held French classes in her home which was pretty cool.
I think if parents are unhappy with the public options for schooling they should be able to do what they want. If a private and/or religious school is within their means, that's great. If homeschooling is something they want they should be able to do that as well.
From my teaching perspective tho, I believe that kids today really need a rigorous education and I'm not 100% that a parent, without some kind of teaching education, can provide that no matter how great their intentions are. A lot depends on the curriculum content but also on how it is presented.

[shinerbock]

An outrageous decision for the most part. Once again the government has decided on behalf of families what is best for children.

I'm afraid we're too far gone when it comes to stripping Americans of their autonomy.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

An outrageous decision for the most part. Once again the government has decided on behalf of families what is best for children.

I'm afraid we're too far gone when it comes to stripping Americans of their autonomy.

I do think the government needs to oversee the education of kids in this country, whether that's through public or private schools, or keeping a close eye on homeschooling. Why? Because our whole society pays for it when kids grow up to be illiterate or undereducated adults who can't function in the real world.