Most chapters at Phi Beta Kappa schools

[Low C Sharp]

Yes, there are a few highly selective schools that don't have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter -- the service academies, Caltech, and Bryn Mawr among them. But many of those schools don't host GLO chapters on campus anyway, so their non-participation in PBK isn't relevant to the thread. (Many schools known for their excellent engineering or pre-professional programs do have chapters, such as MIT, Auburn, Texas A&M, etc.).

I don't believe all colleges and universities are equal in academic quality, and the marketplace doesn't believe that either. PBK is one of the better metrics to use if you want to put together a list of the 300 or so best undergraduate liberal arts programs in the country. Obviously a group that large is going to include more than just the Ivy League level institutions, but it's still an academically select group within the 2200+ four-year institutions in this country. So I was interested to see oldu's results, and if someone puts up an NPHC or MCGLO thread on the topic, I'll be interested in that, too.
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[Little32]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Yes, there are a few highly selective schools that don't have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter -- the service academies, Caltech, and Bryn Mawr among them. But many of those schools don't host GLO chapters on campus anyway, so their non-participation in PBK isn't relevant to the thread. (Many schools known for their excellent engineering or pre-professional programs do have chapters, such as MIT, Auburn, Texas A&M, etc.).

I don't believe all colleges and universities are equal in academic quality, and the marketplace doesn't believe that either. PBK is one of the better metrics to use if you want to put together a list of the 300 or so best undergraduate liberal arts programs in the country. Obviously a group that large is going to include more than just the Ivy League level institutions, but it's still an academically select group within the 2200+ four-year institutions in this country. So I was interested to see oldu's results, and if someone puts up an NPHC or MCGLO thread on the topic, I'll be interested in that, too.

But even if this were the case, the implicit argument is itself a logical fallacy (I have been teaching my students about these of late), especially if my understanding of the ways that NPC/NIC/IFC organizations colonize is correct. The appearance of specific social greek orgs on the same campus as PBK ultimately proves nothing about either organization, which is what most people seem to be pointing out.

Sidebar: I too have noted that oldu's posts never take into consideration NPHC orgs.

[aopirose]

Originally Posted by Little32

But even if this were the case, the implicit argument is itself a logical fallacy (I have been teaching my students about these of late), especially if my understanding of the ways that NPC/NIC/IFC organizations colonize is correct. The appearance of specific social greek orgs on the same campus as PBK ultimately proves nothing about either organization, which is what most people seem to be pointing out.

Sidebar: I too have noted that oldu's posts never take into consideration NPHC orgs.

Exactly. In many cases, GLO chapters were there before the PBK chapter.

BTW - Nice work TSteven on the rifle teams.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by aopirose

BTW - Nice work TSteven on the rifle teams.

Why, thank you. UK does a good job promoting the Rifle Team. For what it is worth, Kentucky folk love to hunt. As such, a lot of Kentuckians grew up learning to shoot all those crazy varmints and wild critters from hundreds of yards away. Who knew that some would parley that ability into an athletic scholarship to a Phi Beta Kappa institution of higher learning.

[NutBrnHair]

Most, if not all, social GLOs list scholarship among their purposes.

Certainly an excellent education (and Greek experience) can be obtained from a non-Phi Beta Kappa campus. My alma mater is not on the list and is considered a competitive liberal arts school. If a school is on the list that you think is not "elite" because it's a large state university known as a "football school," you must realize that the size of the library, the research projects by faculty and the number of undergrads going on to pursue post-graduate work makes the school an excellent candidate.

I find the list interesting. Actually, if I was starting a social GLO -- I'd be more than satisfied with having a chapter at every school listed on the Phi Beta Kappa website.

oldu does a lot of work compiling these threads and I enjoy them. He stated that he would include NPHC groups if he had an accurate list. I think he's being more than accomodating.

oldu, I understand the correlation and really appreciate you putting up with all this!

[33girl]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

Actually, if I was starting a social GLO -- I'd be more than satisfied with having a chapter at every school listed on the Phi Beta Kappa website.

Posterity.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

Most, if not all, social GLOs list scholarship among their purposes.

Certainly an excellent education (and Greek experience) can be obtained from a non-Phi Beta Kappa campus. My alma mater is not on the list and is considered a competitive liberal arts school. If a school is on the list that you think is not "elite" because it's a large state university known as a "football school," you must realize that the size of the library, the research projects by faculty and the number of undergrads going on to pursue post-graduate work makes the school an excellent candidate.

I find the list interesting. Actually, if I was starting a social GLO -- I'd be more than satisfied with having a chapter at every school listed on the Phi Beta Kappa website.

oldu does a lot of work compiling these threads and I enjoy them. He stated that he would include NPHC groups if he had an accurate list. I think he's being more than accommodating.

oldu, I understand the correlation and really appreciate you putting up with all this!

True. And interestingly, many here rejoice when they hear that their sorority or fraternity will be colonizing at a so called "big-name" university. Even if the university is only known because of the football team. Or perhaps simply because it is the flagship university for the state. One only needs to read some of the colony and expansion threads to get a feel for it.

And for what it is worth, I too enjoy oldu's threads.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

oldu does a lot of work compiling these threads and I enjoy them. He stated that he would include NPHC groups if he had an accurate list. I think he's being more than accomodating.

Accomodating really, or condescending? If he is willing to do "a lot of work" on non-NPHC groups, why not be willing to do it on NPHC's? That is the crux of the issue.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by ladygreek

Accomodating really, or condescending? If he is willing to do "a lot of work" on non-NPHC groups, why not be willing to do it on NPHC's? That is the crux of the issue.

Originally Posted by oldu

I would include the NPHC groups if I could locate a good chapter listing for each organization. They do not seem to be listed on the national sites. How about someone be energetic enough to do one of those "all the chapters ever" lists for each of the NPHC fraternities & sororities.

With all due respect, he can only work with what is available. And if no ones cares enough to provided assistance - about their own organizations or others - that is not his fault as well.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

oldu does a lot of work compiling these threads and I enjoy them. He stated that he would include NPHC groups if he had an accurate list. I think he's being more than accomodating.

I call bullshat on that. Even when the topic didn't require an actual list but rather a knowledge of the history of GLOs, he didn't include NPHC orgs.

He does a lot of work to compile these threads and he doesn't include NPHC orgs. Ever. That's how he's able to talk about the best of times and the worst of times without even a "sidebar" of how his synopsis isn't all encompassing.

Originally Posted by NutBrnHair

oldu, I understand the correlation and really appreciate you putting up with all this!

Putting up with all of what? And what would he be doing if he wasn't "putting up with this?" Not post? Remind us of how rude and angry we are. Ha.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

and if someone puts up an NPHC or MCGLO thread on the topic, I'll be interested in that, too.

Good luck, someone.

[ladygreek]

Originally Posted by Low C Sharp

Yes, there are a few highly selective schools that don't have a Phi Beta Kappa chapter --

And some not so highly selective schools that do. Which is why the benchmark is flawed.