"Shame on you, Barack Obama"

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Don't you think that B. Obama, or bizarrely even McCain, could have beaten Bush in 2004, had either found himself running in the general election against Bush?

Nope.

But, I feel where you are coming from though.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by Velocity_14

Nope.

But, I feel where you are coming from though.

Really, you think people were that jazzed about Bush or just that Obama and McCain are weaker than I think they are?

[Velocity_14]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

Really, you think people were that jazzed about Bush or just that Obama and McCain are weaker than I think they are?

Honestly, I think some people were that jazzed about him (I sure as hayle wasn't---I can't stand the man)...especially considering that September 11, 2001 happened very shortly into his first term (and a day b/f my 21st birthday).

I actually like both Obama and McCain (I still think he is too old) and I think they are both strong candidates but against W then...I don't think so. Against W now....W would get the breaks beaten off of him...

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

You hold your tongue!

If it was McCain v Bush right now, I'm confident that Bush would have MUCH more support from the republicans. McCain has far too many liberal tendancies.

Oh, honey, no. I voted for Bush twice, but there's no way that you can say now, knowing everything we know, that Bush ended up being a particularly conservative or a particularly effective President and that he would have more support than McCain. I don't think Bush could get elected dogcatcher now, unless he was running against Kerry.

ETA: I think there's some hope for his legacy once we're free of him, especially if we allow ourselves to stay and succeed in Iraq, but no, I don't think he's popular today.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Oh man! Maybe I am wearing those rose-colored glasses nittanyalum was talking about!

LOL. Yours, my friend, are very, very full-on opaque red, I'm thinking.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SECdomination

Oh man! Maybe I am wearing those rose-colored glasses nittanyalum was talking about!

I don't know about that, but conservatives can do better than McCain or Bush.

[nittanyalum]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I don't know about that, but conservatives can do better than McCain or Bush.

You gotta break the party from the religious right first, though. The hard right twists "true" conservative values into a morality play with religious overtones and demands candidates pander to them. Until the GOP can operate independent of the evangelicals, the party won't cyclone a different kind of candidate to the forefront.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by nittanyalum

You gotta break the party from the religious right first, though. The hard right twists "true" conservative values into a morality play with religious overtones and demands candidates pander to them. Until the GOP can operate independent of the evangelicals, the party won't cyclone a different kind of candidate to the forefront.

What do you mean by "hard right"? Our terms might be off.

I don't think it's the "hard right" doing what you've described so much as the folks invested in perpetuating the party more than the ideals they want to see implemented.

They seem to actually be more centrist in what they are willing to advocate for which makes it easier for them to pander to people comfortable with government expansion.

And I think the panderers will abandon the evangelicals the minute they don't deliver enough votes to win, which might be soon.