Toast Song

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by emb021

Which APO Facebook group are you refering to?? I'm on several. If you search for "alpha phi omega" you'll find a lot. (there's one for National Convention, several for regions and sections, etc).

The one I mentioned recently is one devoted to APO history call "Alpha Phi Omega History Nutz". http://www.facebook.com/group.php?gid=6799907567

This is a GREAT facebook group. I'm down for joining this.

How come no one wants to join me and write a history book on Alpha Phi Omega. I'm not talking about putting together a compilation of archived photos and documents like the 1993 history book (though it had a lot of great info within), but an actual history book that talks about in detail the trials, tribulations, and challenges the Fraternity underwent, such as its co-existence with other Greek groups (which the Founders underwent firsthand), its inclusion of women, the trials and challenges of chapters at HBCUs, even with regards to Scouting and how in some respects APO and the BSA experienced some tension between the two entities.

I think this would be a great labor of love for those involved and would also help set the record straight on a number of rumors that has been prevalent with the Fraternity (the Gentlemen's Agreement comes to mind).

Just my 25 cents.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

How come no one wants to join me and write a history book on Alpha Phi Omega.

Yeah, how 'bout that.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Yeah, how 'bout that.

*smh*

[emb021]

Originally Posted by KAPital PHINUst

This is a GREAT facebook group. I'm down for joining this.

How come no one wants to join me and write a history book on Alpha Phi Omega. I'm not talking about putting together a compilation of archived photos and documents like the 1993 history book (though it had a lot of great info within), but an actual history book that talks about in detail the trials, tribulations, and challenges the Fraternity underwent, such as its co-existence with other Greek groups (which the Founders underwent firsthand), its inclusion of women, the trials and challenges of chapters at HBCUs, even with regards to Scouting and how in some respects APO and the BSA experienced some tension between the two entities.

I think this would be a great labor of love for those involved and would also help set the record straight on a number of rumors that has been prevalent with the Fraternity (the Gentlemen's Agreement comes to mind).

Just my 25 cents.

Who says no one wants to help make this happen?

I know that there are several of us into APO history, who are trying to dig into the lesser known areas of our history and make it more accessible. Many of the things you list here are some of the things several of us are trying to find.

While, yes, an 'official' history may come from our National Archivist (that's the closest we have to a 'National Historian'), and we've already had one (which sadly I've never really seen. I ordered one of the last ones the National Office had, but it disappeared in the mail...), what I want would be a more objective history, giving the good and bad things that happened. (trials & tribulations). Too often your 'official histories' are sanitized and gloss over or ignore the bad things that happen.

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by emb021

Too often your 'official histories' are sanitized and gloss over or ignore the bad things that happen.

I can't agree with that, at least not in the works I've already cited.

[emb021]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

I can't agree with that, at least not in the works I've already cited.

Am not aware of the works you've cited, but I have read some organizational histories (outside the world of GLOs), where its clear to me that certain organizational issues were glossed over.

Heck, even in the area of scouting history you need to go to independent sources to get the real story. The BSA has for decades trotted out a story about their founding (one which I repeated myself) that I've learned only in recent years is probably either widely exagerated, or at worse wholy fictious.

Hence the need for a more independence in the area of historical reporting.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by emb021

Too often your 'official histories' are sanitized and gloss over or ignore the bad things that happen.

Well, in terms of source material, the Torch and Trefoils are pretty good and as best as I can tell the main reason that the National Office hasn't posted the ones they have is time and a fairly frustrating situation with their webpage hoster.

The things that spring to mind as *interesting* things that happened that I'd be interested in finding out more about than is in the Pledge Manual history.

1) Changeover from FRH to HRB.
2) Expansion to Community Colleges in the late 1960s and 1970s relative to the few ones which have stayed inactive
3) Votes on going co-ed, which conventions had them and what was the vote.
4) More information on why the National Fraternity continued to try to get an exemption to Title IX for at least 5 years after the National Fraternity had gone co-ed.
5) What happened to cause APO-USA and APO-Phil to lose touch for those many years.
6) The removal of Masonic titles. etal from the majority of the Fraternity concepts and ceremonies.
7) Longer list of Female unofficial affiliate groups beyond Gamma Sigma Sigma, Omega Phi Alpha, Jewels of Tau and the Phyettes (not even counting the single school ones like Kappa Alpha Kappa).
8) Efforts to expand to Canada. (Since the 1930s!)
9) The degree to which Alpha Phi Omega was viewed as a subsidiary of BSA in the 1930s...
10) When APhiQ became a common term for Alpha Phi Omega at HBCUs, how long after the Q as a term for Omega Psi Phi did it come into existance.
11) Where and when the term Viking started use.
12) When was Trefoil Club first used as the name for the Alpha Phi Omega Pledge Club at HBCUs.


Just throwing out somethings...

[Senusret I]

Originally Posted by naraht

12) When was Trefoil Club first used as the name for the Alpha Phi Omega Pledge Club at HBCUs.

Do we have any evidence that this was used in places other than Howard? Just curious, as I've only had access to the Howard Archives.

[naraht]

Originally Posted by Senusret I

Do we have any evidence that this was used in places other than Howard? Just curious, as I've only had access to the Howard Archives.

No, but I given the *heavy* use of pledge clubs by the NPHC fraternities in the 1970s and 1980s, other Alpha Phi Omega chapters probably had the same interest, and perhaps came to the same result (with or without talking to each other).

Randy

[GMUAPhiOAdvisor]

[quote=naraht;1608864]11) Where and when the term Viking started use.
[quote]

Viking??

I'm at least familiar with everything else on your list, save the differences between APhiO and APhiQ (not too much interaction between my initiating chapter and any HBCUs in the Atlanta area)

This one, I know nothing about, but am curious!!

[naraht]

[QUOTE=GMUAPhiOAdvisor;1609175][quote=naraht;1608864]11) Where and when the term Viking started use.

Viking??

I'm at least familiar with everything else on your list, save the differences between APhiO and APhiQ (not too much interaction between my initiating chapter and any HBCUs in the Atlanta area)

This one, I know nothing about, but am curious!!

The term Viking has been used by members of chapters at HBCUs, I *think* only at all-male chapters at HBCUs to refer to themselves.

Randy

[KAPital PHINUst]

[quote=naraht;1609312][quote=GMUAPhiOAdvisor;1609175]

Originally Posted by naraht

11) Where and when the term Viking started use.


The term Viking has been used by members of chapters at HBCUs, I *think* only at all-male chapters at HBCUs to refer to themselves.

Randy

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

[jeremypichi]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1609329][quote=naraht;1609312]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

I have talked to a few brothers from HBCUs and they seem to consider Pi Chi a Viking chapter, mainly because of our all-male status. We were never too familiar with Viking chapters until we met some of them at the last Nat'l Convention

[arvid1978]

[QUOTE=KAPital PHINUst;1609329][quote=naraht;1609312]

Originally Posted by GMUAPhiOAdvisor

The one thing I am interested in finding out is do Viking brothers at HBCUs consider all-male chapters at non-HBCUs (Auburn, Duquense, U. of Maine, Wabash) Vikings as well, even though they do not subscribe to Viking traditions per se (except for perhaps remaining an all-male chapter).

Wabash is not exactly an all-male chapter. They are on an all-male campus, but have a female advisor. Even prior to that, they were most certainly not a Viking chapter by any means. Neither was the chapter at Rose-Hulman prior to the campus going co-ed.

[KAPital PHINUst]

Originally Posted by emb021

Who says no one wants to help make this happen?

I posed this question to brothers numerous times over the years, and based on the responses I received, interest in such an area seem to be lukewarm at best.

I know that there are several of us into APO history, who are trying to dig into the lesser known areas of our history and make it more accessible. Many of the things you list here are some of the things several of us are trying to find.

Personally, I think that a good deal of information needed to pull off a history book of the magnitude that we are seeking will need to come from word of mouth from individuals who were directly involved with such events. Hopefully we can still get a sufficient amount of information from those who are still living and in decent health/memory to discuss the information we're seeking.

While, yes, an 'official' history may come from our National Archivist (that's the closest we have to a 'National Historian')...

Based on our last history book, I have always interpreted an Archivist keeping more of a pictorial/visual history, vs. a historian keeping more a written one.

...and we've already had one (which sadly I've never really seen. I ordered one of the last ones the National Office had, but it disappeared in the mail...), what I want would be a more objective history, giving the good and bad things that happened. (trials & tribulations).

While it's a shame that you didn't get your history book in the mail as ordered, from a written history standpoint, you really didn't miss much (though there was a abundance of interesting historical pics). The "In The Beginning" chapter was the best chapter of the book, IMO. The second chapter had very brief discussions on APO's history through the decades. Other chapters included our past presidents, past Nat's Exec Directors, sections, regions, chapters, the '67 Con-Con, etc. In short, from an archivist standpoint, it was a very good history book. From a historian standpoint, it really didn't say much, hence our collective desire to put together a more written in-depth history book.