The 2008 presidential field at-a-glance

[AGDee]

Thanks UGAalum. We are pretty different on most issues, but I like to hear people discuss their ideas even when they are different than mine, when they can do so in an intelligent way without lambasting, personal attacks, etc. I think that you are able to do that. I think it is good to have our belief systems challenged.

My ex-husband and I had this discussion at my daughter's birthday dinner last night. He and I are on opposite sides of the spectrum. He thinks I'm a total bleeding heart but I think I'm more moderate than people give me credit for. I tend to more bleeding heart on social issues but not as much on economic. I also don't believe in just giving handouts to everybody all the time and ascribe to the "teach a man to fish" philosophy, not the "give a man a fish". Conversely, I think health care is a right (which someone on this board argued in the past). My beliefs are kind of all over the map. But, I think that social spending needs to be done efficiently not haphazardly. An example: Providing inexpensive day care for single moms so that they can work at lower income jobs without leaving their kids home alone before they are old enough (yes) vs. Provide single moms with enough money to raise the kids without ever working or learning new skills (no).

Believe it or not, in my very first presidential election, I voted for Reagan. I voted for McCain in the Republican primary in 2000. I'm not opposed to all Republicans all the time. I also recognize that people have differences in their belief systems because of their personal life experiences. Like, my ex-husband has been an accountant for major corporations and is an extremist Christian whereas I have worked in health care and have a strong faith but not necessarily a firm belief in anyone denomination. These experiences shape our ideas and opinions. The only way to understand why others believe what they do is to listen to them, and I am always open to that.

[UGAalum94]

I think that some level of guaranteed health care, ideally paid for by private charity, is a mark of a good society.

I accept that there perhaps should be government subsidized care for people who are truly unable to pay for it themselves, but that funding and administering this care is least likely to be effective at the federal level and I don't think that I'd describe it as a "right."

The more that the government gets involved with health care, the more I think most of us who have had insurance through our employers can expect the quality of care and the choices available to us to diminish. I think the bureaucracy will increase and that even private employers will do what they can to shift the burden they've been assuming onto the taxpayers.

It's possible that a small segment of the population will benefit and it's likely that services will become more equal, primarily by making it worse for more people. But I think it's really unlikely that we'll experience better or less expensive health care overall.

So, I'm not at all a fan of most versions of government health care initiatives, especially at the federal level.

But, I can respect people who disagree, and I think the weird "the other political party is the enemy" rhetoric and personal attacks that creep into most discussions are really bizarre.

[AGDee]

Well, I finally decided, as I walked into the polling place to go with the Uncommitted on the Democrat ballot. It feels like a non-vote, but it does the best job at saying "I am most likely going to vote for a Democrat but Hillary isn't my first choice"

ETA: Romney won in Michigan, along with Clinton .. still waiting to hear the percentage for "Uncommitted"

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Well, I finally decided, as I walked into the polling place to go with the Uncommitted on the Democrat ballot. It feels like a non-vote, but it does the best job at saying "I am most likely going to vote for a Democrat but Hillary isn't my first choice"

ETA: Romney won in Michigan, along with Clinton .. still waiting to hear the percentage for "Uncommitted"

I wondered what you decided to do. I saw something today, and didn't it shake out that although she was the only name on the ballot, Hillary only got 45% of the vote and Uncommitted got 40%? I think those were the stats I saw. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by UGAalum94

I wondered what you decided to do. I saw something today, and didn't it shake out that although she was the only name on the ballot, Hillary only got 45% of the vote and Uncommitted got 40%? I think those were the stats I saw. Not exactly a ringing endorsement.

http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2008/pri...ults/state/#MI

Apparently she got 55% (still not really a ringing endorsement).

[AGDee]

Well, there was a big grass roots effort to get people to go for "uncommitted" due to the circumstances. I seriously considered not voting at all. But, my family was very into voting... my great-grandmother was a sufragette. I have a great aunt who was the president of the Michigan League of Women Voters, my grandma was once president of the Detroit League and my mom was the president of the Warren (MI) League when I was a kid. When my mom was in the hospital in 2006 and we didn't know whether she would make it, her biggest concern was getting her absentee ballot done and turned in. When I thought about not voting, I thought "My mother would roll over in her grave if I don't vote". Then I realized.. she doesn't have a grave, she was cremated and I still have my portion of her cremains in my house because it's been too cold to spread them where she wants them. So, I didn't think I could NOT vote while she's still in my house.

That's crazy, but it made me vote. It felt kind of Grey's Anatomy.

[DaemonSeid]

Bob Johnson apologizes to ObamaPosted: Thursday, January 17, 2008 12:18 PM by Mark Murray

From NBC's Tom Lea and Mark Murray
Four days after he made an unmistakable allusion to Obama's teenage drug use and even referred to him as Sidney Poitier, Clinton supporter Bob Johnson apologized to Obama for those remarks.

"I'm writing to apologize to you and your family personally for the un-called-for comments I made at a recent Clinton event," Johnson said in a statement. "In my zeal to support Senator Clinton, I made some very inappropriate remarks for which I am truly sorry. I hope that you will accept this apology. Good luck on the campaign trail."

On Sunday at a campaign event for Clinton in South Carolina


http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archi...gory/1208.aspx

[nittanyalum]

Sorry, UGAAlum, your guy's calling it quits... http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/7203575.stm