Saudi Rape victim is sentenced

[AKA_Monet]

Ironically, the only researched sentencing that is used as a statistically significant deterrent is the Capital Punishment or the Death Penalty...

Viewing some of the stats, they may be weak, like a P < 0.04999, but it is still significant on a 2 tailed, heterodecastic analysis.

Giving lashes to anyone is "Cruel and Unusual Punishment" and could be labeled a torture by some circles. What is it going to teach the offender if you want to not have recidivism?

The other issue is why did these men feel they needed to sexually assault and rape a female friend? I do not know how Saudi courts operate, and we may not care about that issue, but I do not think they are "crazed lunatics" unable to control themselves to savagely brutalize a woman, today. I think this was a planned activity because they knew how this poor girl behaved and when she refused, they overpowered her... Simple as that.

Should they be punished? Definitely. Should the girl be punished? Like I said, was a rape kit put on her? If not, they authorities do not have any right to put her on trial because it becomes her words against the offenders. If they did, and she violated the law of not riding in the car with male non-relatives, at minimum, she should be made to pay in community service or administrative work.

Regardless of what we think of their laws, Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation. However, I think it a human rights violation to punish any female who has had to endure a sex crime. That is my opinion. I could be wrong.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Viewing some of the stats, they may be weak, like a P < 0.04999, but it is still significant on a 2 tailed, heterodecastic analysis.

Yeah and that weak, statistical significance has never been able to truly support the deterrent effect of capital punishment and lead to lasting conclusions regarding its effectiveness.

It just adds fuel to the debate over statistical significance versus substantive significance.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

Yeah and that weak, statistical significance has never been able to truly support the deterrent effect of capital punishment and lead to lasting conclusions regarding its effectiveness.

It just adds fuel to the debate over statistical significance versus substantive significance.

I know... Like, correlation does not imply causation... But, I guess "they" fail to realize that aspect...

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

Should they be punished? Definitely. Should the girl be punished? Like I said, was a rape kit put on her? If not, they authorities do not have any right to put her on trial because it becomes her words against the offenders. If they did, and she violated the law of not riding in the car with male non-relatives, at minimum, she should be made to pay in community service or administrative work.

Regardless of what we think of their laws, Saudi Arabia is a sovereign nation. However, I think it a human rights violation to punish any female who has had to endure a sex crime. That is my opinion. I could be wrong.

I believe she's being punished for being in the presence of a male non-relative, not for being raped. They are punishing the males for the rape.

And I seriously doubt she had a rape kit done on her. Only a small percentage of the medical practitioners in Saudi Arabia are women, and I seriously doubt women there expose themselves in such a way to strangers that may even be doctors. But I could be wrong.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I believe she's being punished for being in the presence of a male non-relative, not for being raped. They are punishing the males for the rape.

And I seriously doubt she had a rape kit done on her. Only a small percentage of the medical practitioners in Saudi Arabia are women, and I seriously doubt women there expose themselves in such a way to strangers that may even be doctors. But I could be wrong.

I asked those questions for a reason...

The fact is 200 lashes is harsh for riding in a car with a male non-relative. What if she did not get raped? Would she still get 200 lashes? Islamic law or not, fact remains, it violates human rights.

And they did not do a rape kit on her, although, the Saudi Kingdom could well afford it as much as we, the US, is paying for gas these days, to treat their women appropriately rather than using ancient codes of mores on women. But that's another thread...

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by AKA_Monet

I asked those questions for a reason...

The fact is 200 lashes is harsh for riding in a car with a male non-relative. What if she did not get raped? Would she still get 200 lashes? Islamic law or not, fact remains, it violates human rights.

And they did not do a rape kit on her, although, the Saudi Kingdom could well afford it as much as we, the US, is paying for gas these days, to treat their women appropriately rather than using ancient codes of mores on women. But that's another thread...

and she is not getting 200 lashed because of that either...she was originally scheduled a shorter jail sentence and 90 lashes...

here are the excerpts from the report:
According to Arab News, the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."

She had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting her of violating Saudi's rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.

Under Saudi Arabia's interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.

The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

and she is not getting 200 lashed because of that either...she was originally scheduled a shorter jail sentence and 90 lashes...

here are the excerpts from the report:
According to Arab News, the court said the woman's punishment was increased because of "her attempt to aggravate and influence the judiciary through the media."

She had initially been sentenced to 90 lashes after being convicting her of violating Saudi's rigid laws on segregation of the sexes.

Under Saudi Arabia's interpretation of Islamic Sharia law, women are not allowed in public in the company of men other than their male relatives.

The initial sentences for the men convicted of the gang rape ranged from 10 months to five years in prison. Their new sentences range from two to nine years, the paper said.

How does any of that matter? She's getting 200 lashes because her lawyer did the right thing by standing up to the unjust tribunal which seems, even by Sharia standards to be going to sickening extremes (even though it's apparently within the court's discretion to do so).

It is apparent to me that the increased sentence is a result of the judge being asked to justify his extremely harsh sentence. The judge's reaction tells me that as a human being, this judge is not fit to breath the same air as the rest of us.

[DaemonSeid]

Originally Posted by Kevin

How does any of that matter? She's getting 200 lashes because her lawyer did the right thing by standing up to the unjust tribunal which seems, even by Sharia standards to be going to sickening extremes (even though it's apparently within the court's discretion to do so).

It is apparent to me that the increased sentence is a result of the judge being asked to justify his extremely harsh sentence. The judge's reaction tells me that as a human being, this judge is not fit to breath the same air as the rest of us.

I was just clarifying that she was being sentenced for arguing with the judge....not the initial crime.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

I was just clarifying that she was being sentenced for arguing with the judge....not the initial crime.

No, the sentence was for the attorney attempting to change the outcome of the case by embarrassing the Sharia court by appealing to the media.

Even in the U.S., such behavior would generally be considered unprofessional for an attorney, but in this case, I think the lawyer is not only justified, he's a brave and admirable person for taking on this system at the risk of his career and possibly his life.

Lawyers in the middle east are really some of my favorite people lately -- real heroes. There's this guy and the thousands of Pakistani lawyers who tried to storm the court house so that they could protect their clients' rights.

I have nothing but respect and admiration for these guys.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by PeppyGPhiB

I believe she's being punished for being in the presence of a male non-relative, not for being raped. They are punishing the males for the rape.

Oh, I misunderstood.

That makes it so much better.

Damn women running around with non-male relatives. I only wish the good 'ol U.S.A. could be so moral.

[PeppyGPhiB]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh, I misunderstood.

That makes it so much better.

Damn women running around with non-male relatives. I only wish the good 'ol U.S.A. could be so moral.

Again, didn't say it's right, was just pointing out that *technically* they aren't sentencing her for being raped.

Of course 200 lashes is ridiculous...it's ridiculous to PUNISH someone for being in a car with someone of the opposite sex. AND the punishment of lashing someone is ridiculous, too. It's archaic.

Are you guys "getting it" now, that there's no point in comparing Saudi Arabia to the U.S. of A.?

I just don't understand why all of a sudden people are up in arms about this. It's been going on forever there, and in other parts of the world. For years, the Taliban was treating women - actually, all of its citizens - in all kinds of inhumane and oppressive ways, but we didn't care over here. It took an attack from Osama to get us into Afghanistan. The American memory has a way of remembering what is convenient at the time.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Oh, I misunderstood.

That makes it so much better.

Damn women running around with non-male relatives. I only wish the good 'ol U.S.A. could be so moral.

You should run for President.