T-shirt club

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by Crowboy55

how to unite and work as one with your pledge brothers to overcome near impossible tasks and obsticals[/U]

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

On the other hand, it's easy to ban anything that might remotely be seen as character-building - on the premise that it might be perceived as hazing. What happened to honor? Honor among brothers, or sisters, I might add, means they'll stop true hazing.

My house used to reveal big sisters by having all the pledges find a string with their name on it as they got to the house. They followed that string for up to an hour, all through the house, finding clues and gifts along the way. It finally ended up tied to their big in the chapter room. Somebody felt that might lead to hazing...and the tradition was shut down.

Prohibiting behaviors outright is the coward's way out.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by DGTess

My house used to reveal big sisters by having all the pledges find a string with their name on it as they got to the house. They followed that string for up to an hour, all through the house, finding clues and gifts along the way. It finally ended up tied to their big in the chapter room. Somebody felt that might lead to hazing...and the tradition was shut down.

I agree--that's a fun way to find your big, but why an hour or more? Is that really necessary?? This is why things like this get banned--because if you give an inch, many groups and people will take a mile.

Unfortunately not all chapters have involved advisors to go through the subtle nuances of things--so some things, that I call 'unhealthy traditions' (which may not be hazing...yet) get banned. If we could police ourselves, others wouldn't be doing it for us.

[DGTess]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

I agree--that's a fun way to find your big, but why an hour or more? Is that really necessary?? This is why things like this get banned--because if you give an inch, many groups and people will take a mile.

Unfortunately not all chapters have involved advisors to go through the subtle nuances of things--so some things, that I call 'unhealthy traditions' (which may not be hazing...yet) get banned. If we could police ourselves, others wouldn't be doing it for us.

I will respectfully disagree. I believe If we WOULD police ourselves, instead of expecting others to do it for us, we'd be in much better shape. When we started expecting others to do it is when we started becoming sheeple instead of leaders.

[Crowboy55]

Originally Posted by LPIDelta

You can do that, and most of what you mentioned above, without hazing. The problem is, groups that haze want to take the easy route. They want to humiliate instead of uplift. They want to physically or mentally abuse in the name of team building--when there are so many other ways to accomplish the same task, probably better. Hazing is easy...choosing not to, and being dedicated to true brother/sisterhood and human dignity, is a greater challenge.

I've mentioned several times that I was hazed, and it did nothing to bring us together. It scared my class mates to the point we were attacking the littlest thing instead working together in an uplifting manner. I don't talk to most of those women today so no life long bond was created.

To me, being a man doesn't mean demeaning or treating others poorly. Educating new members should be about challenging each other so that they become BETTER men. So that they learn how to run a business. So that they learn how to deal with people from all backgrounds. So that they learn how to be a brother. It should not be about proving yourself capable of thousands of push-ups or reciting information or playing mind games.

*Off my soapbox*

When your talking about humiliating and / or treating others poorly you have not understood what i was trying to get across. Sure physical activity and workouts aren't the easiest and most convient thing to do, But thats exactly the point. There are times in life that are going to be very hard and seemingly impossible. while pledging and having to do lots of workouts there is always and brother there helping you, verbaly motivating you to no matter what just keep going, telling you that you CAN do it. Helping you realize how great of an accomplishment you can really make.pledging for me put me through the best and worst times of my life in a short span of time. That time spent with pledge brothers is alot of the point. Seeing eachother and being there for eachother at the hard times, and being there with eachother for the great times..... its like the extreme ups- and downs of growing up all condenced into an 8 week period...... i am the last brother in a frat due to a de-pledge going and ratting on us...... but still to this day there isnt any other way i would of done it... EARNED my letters

[fyrnymph]

Ah, the sweet irony of belonging to a fraternity which had to disband because of the glue that apparently held it together - hazing. It just goes to show - if you build your GLO on a creed to which you and your brothers/sisters aspire, you build it on something solid and lasting. If you build it on merely overcoming artifical "obstacles" and Survivior-type challenges, you don't build anything which will last.
I "earn" my letters everyday by the way I live my life. My sisters have bonded with me through real-life ups and downs - not through an artifical construct that demeans or degrades. What is important to my GLO is not the ability to do push-ups until you vomit - but in developing as women of character who impact our communities, both collegiate and otherwise, through our contributions to them.
Referring to other GLOs as "t-shirt clubs" just goes to show that you don't get it. I'm happy to hear that your GLO is no more, as it was apparently the type that gives the rest of us a bad name.

[LPIDelta]

Originally Posted by Crowboy55

When your talking about humiliating and / or treating others poorly you have not understood what i was trying to get across. Sure physical activity and workouts aren't the easiest and most convient thing to do

See you missed my point--making people do physical activity IS the most convenient and easiest thing to do--it requires no thought on the part of the new member educators to think of these things. As far as being "motivated" by brothers--that can happen when you're doing a sanctioned ropes course, learning something new you've never tried (ballroom dancing, cooking, rockwall climbing), planning a fundraiser or studying together. No need to do hours upon hours of exercise to prove the point. As far as I am concerned, no one should feel loyalty to someone who once treated them like crap. That's not how to "earn" the loyalty of new members.

As far as policing ourselves--that was my point--we aren't doing it so people do it for us. We don't expect them to--we don't even want them to--but campuses have had to in order to protect themselves from liability and lawsuits. If all Greek chapter members followed policies, the laws of our states and lived by the organization's values--then the outside community and campus administration would not feel a need to call us on it and police our programs.

I, too, earn my letters by living my life according to the values of my organization. And as far as new members go, I don't believe that we should bid anyone who does not already represent our values in some way. If you feel the need to break people and rebuild them, then you aren't picking the right men/women to be new members of your organization.

To the OP--you group was shut down because of hazing, and yet you're still here advocating for it! Amazing. Aren't you sad that your group's legacy is that you broke the law? Aren't you sad that men at your university now have one less option to get involved? If you're so loyal to your organization and brothers, wouldn't it have been worth following policies and laws in order to save the chapter??

[texas*princess]

It sounds to me like the OP's org created the "worst" times so that it could artificially bond them in some way.

If you want your pledges to work out, why not invite them to the gym along with you?

I'm not really clear how one extra pushup = a "real" man.

When I was a NM, actives and other NMs would go to the gym together for fun and fitness... we didn't work out because that was how we were supposed to "earn" our letters.

LPI said it best:

I, too, earn my letters by living my life according to the values of my organization. And as far as new members go, I don't believe that we should bid anyone who does not already represent our values in some way. If you feel the need to break people and rebuild them, then you aren't picking the right men/women to be new members of your organization.