JENA 6

[Marie]

Couple of things...

#1 We really do have to take a step back and realize that the attention and momentum that the Jena case is receiving is really a culmination of many injustices that seem to have occurred within our 'justice system'. While it may be true that rallying/protesting/etc. may be a bit much for ONE questionable case...you have to realize that this is really ONE MORE questionable case in a long line of questionable cases. People are simply fed up with 'some people' receiving punishments for a crime that in many cases would never be passed down to 'other people'. I mean, let's think about this...what these students did was wrong without a doubt. Will sending them to prison for 20 (or even 5 yrs) help them to grow, see the error of their ways, and become a productive and contributing member of our society? Probably not. Many of these students have no prior record or history of disobedience. Arguably to punish them in this way is to throw away their futures. Perhaps what we are seeing here is that some people's future is simply viewed as more valuable than others.

Certainly 'thug' and 'punk' are likely not the 1st words that pop into one's mind when they see the average white or asian young person...even when they are in a negative situation. Since we are referencing the NC Lacrosse case, then certainly some of the same ppl who have condemned the Jena students did not refer to those Lacrosse players as 'thugs' or 'punks' (never once-from the day of the 1st accusation to the day they were cleared). Even if we look to instances where white students have been clearly identified as the guilty party, the focus tends to be more so on addressing the issue and getting them back onto the right path. However, we are not seeing much evidence that this focus in both the victim and the culprit's well-being in highly regarded in all cases. Why is this? Perhaps it is b/c when some individuals look at a troubled black or latino person they say "Well clearly they are just a thug...looking for trouble as usual. Lock them up and throw away the key. It was just a matter of time anyway. This is all they know or can ever know." rather than "Gee, this kid has their whole life ahead of them. There is no indication that they are a chronic behavior problem, so we really need to look at the spirit of the law and whether this was the way that it was intended to be applied. Let’s see how we can teach these individuals a lesson and get them back on track." At least this is what their actions are saying.

We can look at the young man in GA who was tried as a sex offender for having consensual sex with a girl one year younger than him. We can look at the young lady in Texas who was almost sentenced to over 10 years in prison for shoving a teacher. Now let’s add to that six students tried for attempted murder of someone who didn't spend more than three hours in the hospital. I am certainly not saying that these kids don't deserve any punishment. However, I also don't agree with taking their lives and futures and tossing them down the drain.

#2 KDdani - I just wanted to address your comment about not pointing and bringing attention to injustice, but rather simply working to address it. There are many ways of fighting injustice. Sometimes it is through specific actions and efforts to build relationships and create solutions, and other times it is simply through shining a spotlight on the infraction. There are so many people in this world who don't even acknowledge or believe that there is still racism...yet alone a need to solve it. There is a place for simply bring these situations to the attention of others. Additionally, so many offenses are done in the dark and simply go unnoticed. If you think of the three situations noted above, these are all a product of small towns where those individuals would have been hung out to dry had not the national media gotten a hold of the stories. We can even look at the situations in Darfur or Rwanda, or the AIDS crisis in Africa, or the conflict in Israel. Without someone to shine a spotlight on these tragedies, there is very little large scale support generated b/c people simply aren't aware. I'm not saying all of that to argue...I'm just mentioning it b/c I hear comments like those often, and we need to be aware that discussion/protesting/rallying/media has its place.

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by Marie

Couple of things...

#1 We really do have to take a step back and realize that the attention and momentum that the Jena case is receiving is really a culmination of many injustices that seem to have occurred within our 'justice system'.

Ah... so rather than discuss the actual problem, you rally around a bunch of thugs (yes they are) who beat the snot out of a kid because he talked a little crap. Nice.

Will sending them to prison for 20 (or even 5 yrs) help them to grow, see the error of their ways, and become a productive and contributing member of our society? Probably not.

Rehabilitation is only one of the aims of the penal system. Another is to punish behavior which society condemns. Last I checked it was illegal to blindside someone then repeatedly kick them in the head. You do the crime, you do the time.

Many of these students have no prior record or history of disobedience.

I read that some (if not most or even all but one) have priors.

Arguably to punish them in this way is to throw away their futures. Perhaps what we are seeing here is that some people's future is simply viewed as more valuable than others.

Wrong, they throw away their futures when they decided to break the law. It is not "society" it is their own dumb choice that put them where they are.

Certainly 'thug' and 'punk' are likely not the 1st words that pop into one's mind when they see the average white or asian young person...even when they are in a negative situation.

Speak for yourself.

Since we are referencing the NC Lacrosse case, then certainly some of the same ppl who have condemned the Jena students did not refer to those Lacrosse players as 'thugs' or 'punks' (never once-from the day of the 1st accusation to the day they were cleared).

I believe they were out of control jocks.

-- basically the same thing.

Even if we look to instances where white students have been clearly identified as the guilty party, the focus tends to be more so on addressing the issue and getting them back onto the right path.

Basis?

However, we are not seeing much evidence that this focus in both the victim and the culprit's well-being in highly regarded in all cases. Why is this? Perhaps it is b/c when some individuals look at a troubled black or latino person they say "Well clearly they are just a thug...looking for trouble as usual. Lock them up and throw away the key.

What do you mean by "troubled"?

Now let’s add to that six students tried for attempted murder of someone who didn't spend more than three hours in the hospital.

You need to check your facts. No one was ever "tried" for attempted murder.

[Marie]

Originally Posted by Kevin

Ah... so rather than discuss the actual problem, you rally around a bunch of thugs (yes they are) who beat the snot out of a kid because he talked a little crap. Nice.



Rehabilitation is only one of the aims of the penal system. Another is to punish behavior which society condemns. Last I checked it was illegal to blindside someone then repeatedly kick them in the head. You do the crime, you do the time.



I read that some (if not most or even all but one) have priors.



Wrong, they throw away their futures when they decided to break the law. It is not "society" it is their own dumb choice that put them where they are.



Speak for yourself.



I believe they were out of control jocks.

-- basically the same thing.



Basis?



What do you mean by "troubled"?



You need to check your facts. No one was ever "tried" for attempted murder.

I only respond again to highlight my earlier comment to Kddani. Imagine how difficult it is to work to find solutions to today's problems when faced with individuals who despite your best efforts to be diplomatic, positive, and reasonable only want to argue, judge and create conflict. I certainly hope that we will get to a point where we can speak candidly and acknowledge one another's view point. However, GC seems to be far from that place.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by Marie

We can look at the young man in GA who was tried as a sex offender for having consensual sex with a girl one year younger than him. We can look at the young lady in Texas who was almost sentenced to over 10 years in prison for shoving a teacher. Now let’s add to that six students tried for attempted murder of someone who didn't spend more than three hours in the hospital. I am certainly not saying that these kids don't deserve any punishment. However, I also don't agree with taking their lives and futures and tossing them down the drain.

The Jena case doesn't exist in a vacuum. These cases you mentioned are exactly why so many African Americans are up in arms. It's the CONSISTENT use of over punishment that is so frustrating. I'm definitely not celebrating these boys as martyrs or heroes... they broke the law. But this case just another link in a long chain.

[DaemonSeid]

Agree or disagree...it is more profitable to imprison someone than it is to educate them.....

[Kevin]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Agree or disagree...it is more profitable to imprison someone than it is to educate them.....

The answer depends on whether you take a utilitarian or retributive approach to punishment. I take the later.

[Rudey]

Originally Posted by DaemonSeid

Agree or disagree...it is more profitable to imprison someone than it is to educate them.....

You guys can argue all you want, but this statement makes no sense. The most profitable thing to do is to educate someone so that they can contribute and make money.

I heard that Jesse Jackson called Obama white, and Obama said rainbows are gay. I'm not sure if that happened, but it needed to be said for a long time. Rainbows are gay.

-Rudey