Sexual orientation and MS

[shinerbock]

I always find this debate interesting. If some fraternities want to welcome gay members into their organization, by all means, they should feel comfortable doing so. However, I think many are reluctant to do this, and I think that is understandable for a couple of reasons:

1) A lot of fraternities value Christian ideals. Many see homosexuality as immoral, and may be hesitant to endorse that lifestyle. Of course, some will likely see such an objection as hypocritical, considering other practices that are common in fraternities. That being said, tolerating or even encouraging some morally questionable activities isn't a persuasive reason to accept or encourage other objectionable activities.

2) Inviting someone into your fraternity usually leads to significant and extended contact with that person. In my opinion, doing so requires more than the level of "tolerance" that is often trumpeted in the workplace or other organizations. Many or most of these people will live together, take trips together, and experience social lives that are intertwined. A lot of guys get uncomfortable around overt homosexual activity. In my opinion this is usually natural, and not indicative of any conscious intolerance.

-I have a problem with the idea that fraternities are expected to be places of diversity. Fraternities, at least the ones I was around, did not intend to be microcosms of society. They were places for like-minded people to join together to pursue common interests and goals. If you like a potential member overall, then take him. However, I don't think fraternities should necessarily abide by the reasoning that they should take a potential member because they like him in every aspect except for his homosexuality. One's sexual orientation may be a big deal to an organization, and I don't have a problem with it being a deal breaker (nor do I have a problem with religion or ideology being one).

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

1) A lot of fraternities value Christian ideals. Many see homosexuality as immoral, and may be hesitant to endorse that lifestyle. Of course, some will likely see such an objection as hypocritical, considering other practices that are common in fraternities.

Right. I find your last sentence to be true. I don't understand why some supposedly Christian-based fraternities welcome potential brothers who drink excessively, do drugs, or have premarital sex, but then also use their faith as a justification for rejecting potential brothers because of their sexual orientation. Also, welcoming a potential brother who happens to be gay does not mean the organization "endorses" homosexuality.

I've also noticed a strong (perhaps unrelated, but we'll never know) correlation between the groups who openly reject potential brothers (justified by their "values") and those groups which haze.

So again, I agree with your last sentence that some will see this excuse as hypocritical. You can't have it both ways. Either use your faith-based values as justification across the board, or don't appeal to those values as excuses at all.


2) Inviting someone into your fraternity usually leads to significant and extended contact with that person. In my opinion, doing so requires more than the level of "tolerance" that is often trumpeted in the workplace or other organizations. Many or most of these people will live together, take trips together, and experience social lives that are intertwined. A lot of guys get uncomfortable around overt homosexual activity. In my opinion this is usually natural, and not indicative of any conscious intolerance.

I guess my question here is what you mean by "overt homosexual activity". By simply professing one's sexual preference, does that count as "overt"? I've known several homosexual men in my life, and never have I actually witnessed homosexual activity from those men. In fact, I find homosexual men to be much more private with their sexual endeavors than their hetero counter-parts.

I can see your points, shiner, but I think they're relatively flawed. If your fraternity doesn't have a clause that addresses this specifically, then just say that. Don't appeal to reasons that don't hold water to make your case. And if your fraternity does have an official policy for this, and your chapter chooses not to adopt it, then just say that. It doesn't do any good when organizations lie about their policies, or even worse, just make things up to try to justify what they're doing.