advice needed

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by auburnmom2007

...[her] roomate had a rec letter for kappa and my daughter didnt have rec letters at all.

Sorry for the double post, but I just saw this.

Did Auburn's Panhellenic indicate that recs aren't necessary? This is one of my biggest pet peeves. If your school has a competitive recruitment (like Auburn does), it does PNMs a huge disservice to tell them that recs aren't necessary when, in actuality, they are.

Anyone here know what PNMs were told regarding recs?

[Army Wife'79]

A few years ago when my D went thru, the website and literature said "Recs are not necessary, if a sorority requires a rec, it is their job to secure one for you if they want your student as a member" (or something to that effect.) What a bunch of baloney. Since we were from out of state we didn't know any better and actually believed them!!

[WregleXO]

I know that right now your daughter probably doesn't even want to entertain the thought of going through the whole process again but when I went through rush at Auburn, I had three friends from my high school that were either cut out of rush on pref day or bid day. They all three went through rush again the next year and all ended up pledging their first choice (which ended up not being their first choice from their freshmen year).

[Bamarox]

No maximizing your options guarantees a bid to one of the three she went to pref night.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Bamarox

No maximizing your options guarantees a bid to one of the three she went to pref night.

but doesn't "maximizing your options" entail having to go back to all the invites she gets throughout the week? I mean, if she hates ABC but they keep asking her back, even though she tries to cut them, if she doesn't have enough other groups above them that ask her back, she has to keep going there. So even though she's at their pref, she might not want to be a member.

[Bamarox]

If she went back to the maximum number of parties at every round and attended 3 parties on pref she should have been placed

[SmartBlondeGPhB]

Originally Posted by Bamarox

If she went back to the maximum number of parties at every round and attended 3 parties on pref she should have been placed

Not if her order for them differed from theirs.

[tennesseemom]

Originally Posted by Bamarox

If she went back to the maximum number of parties at every round and attended 3 parties on pref she should have been placed

that unfortunatly is not how Auburn does it. The PNM's rank their preferences 1,2,3 and they must match up with the lists that the sororities have. Some sororities invite triple quota to pref day(ie three lists) and some invite double to pref day(ie 2 lists) if a sorority matches every rushee on their first list, and that PNM was on everyones second list, she gets "cut" out of rush.

[auburnmom2007]

on the website it said recs were not necessary, if the sorority needed them they would get them for the rushee I am now thinking this was a huge mistake on our part not knowing how important this was if there was such limited space with 1200 girls rushing

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by auburnmom2007

on the website it said recs were not necessary, if the sorority needed them they would get them for the rushee I am now thinking this was a huge mistake on our part not knowing how important this was if there was such limited space with 1200 girls rushing

First off, I hope no one takes this the wrong way as I'm not trying to criticize anyone who has been told this and follows it. Secondly, because I've been actively involved with Bama Recuitment for more than a decade it's entirely possible that my view is completely skewed by my first hand knowledge. Thirdly, I only quoted Auburnmom because hers was the most succinct post about this topic to make my point.

With all that being said, why do folks assume "not necessary" means "not needed at all"? From the info I've learned about all the sororities, none actually require Recs in order to participate in Recruitment. But a PNM's chances are much more slim without them when going through a highly competitive Recruitment. Why? First and foremost it's an easy cut along with grades.

All anyone needs to do is look at the the numbers that go through Recruitment on any given campus. If it's in the 1,000's then why don't PNM's do everything they possibly can to improve their chances? As with anything in life, if you are 1 out of 1,000+ it's going to be tough to stand out and make people remember you.

I have an example of how the circumstances of Recruitment were practically identical to my getting a job. Many moons ago I applied for an entry level position at a very large corporation. There were maybe 12 openings and several 1,000's of applicants. My Dad had a lot of connections with the company but told me I had to "stand on my own two feet". Despite a solid resume with experience in that field, I didn't even get an interview. A year later the same entry level positions opened up. This time Dad made some calls. His connections couldn't promise me a job, but they did make recommendations and I got an interview. Then it was up to me and I "wowed" the interviewers enough to get the job.

I don't look at this as a "who you know" vs "what you know" thing. Instead I view it as employers having 1,000's of candidates for a handful of positions. Even if they wanted to they couldn't review every application and resume they received and interview every single candidate. That would take years! They needed to whittle down the pool. I learned later the first cut was anyone who didn't have a college degree. The second was anyone who didn't have at least a certain college GPA. That still left several hundred applicants and they only planned on interviewing less than 100. So they looked at recommendations. Sound familiar?

Is it fair? Maybe not, but it's real life.

[Army Wife'79]

I think you had a good analogy however, let's take it a step further. On your resume under "references" do you put people you have known for a nanosecond, or people who only read your resume? Of course not. You put people who know you well, know your skill sets and can vouch for your character.
That is why when my D went thru a SEC rush, she only had 3 recs. People who knew her well: an aunt, a boss (a veterinarian) and a neighbor who she knew for 3 years and did petsitting for. When a friends Mom found out she didn't have recs for all groups, she offered to secure them and WE TURNED HER DOWN. (you can clean the coffee off your monitor now). Frankly, not being "greek wise" we felt it unethical for total strangers to recommend my D when they didn't know if she was a psychopath or serial killer or whatever. I honestly thought the 4.45 gpa and resume would make her stand out because the websites talked about scholastics etc.

[Zillini]

Originally Posted by Army Wife'79

I think you had a good analogy however, let's take it a step further. On your resume under "references" do you put people you have known for a nanosecond, or people who only read your resume? Of course not. You put people who know you well, know your skill sets and can vouch for your character.
That is why when my D went thru a SEC rush, she only had 3 recs. People who knew her well: an aunt, a boss (a veterinarian) and a neighbor who she knew for 3 years and did petsitting for. When a friends Mom found out she didn't have recs for all groups, she offered to secure them and WE TURNED HER DOWN. (you can clean the coffee off your monitor now). Frankly, not being "greek wise" we felt it unethical for total strangers to recommend my D when they didn't know if she was a psychopath or serial killer or whatever. I honestly thought the 4.45 gpa and resume would make her stand out because the websites talked about scholastics etc.

And I agree with your point. From an advisor's prospective I dislike "info only" recs from alums who have never even met the PNM. The alums probably know just as much about the girl as we do from her Recruitment application. How can you say this girl would be an asset to our organization if you've never even met her?

Years ago I made a personal decision to never write a rec for anyone I didn't know. One of my first years advising I had an active beg me to write one for her "rush crush". I did and she ended up becoming a member. I spent the next 4 years dealing with a variety of standards problems with this young woman. I felt it was my own fault and I vowed to never go through that again nor subject any other Chapter to that possibility.

The problem is that not everyone follows this policy and there's no way we can change it unless all the NPC groups address it at the same time.

[AnchorAlumna]

Originally Posted by Army Wife'79

I think you had a good analogy however, let's take it a step further. On your resume under "references" do you put people you have known for a nanosecond, or people who only read your resume? Of course not. You put people who know you well, know your skill sets and can vouch for your character.
That is why when my D went thru a SEC rush, she only had 3 recs. People who knew her well: an aunt, a boss (a veterinarian) and a neighbor who she knew for 3 years and did petsitting for. When a friends Mom found out she didn't have recs for all groups, she offered to secure them and WE TURNED HER DOWN. (you can clean the coffee off your monitor now). Frankly, not being "greek wise" we felt it unethical for total strangers to recommend my D when they didn't know if she was a psychopath or serial killer or whatever. I honestly thought the 4.45 gpa and resume would make her stand out because the websites talked about scholastics etc.

While I respect this as well as Zillini's decision to never rec anybody she doesn't know personally, the fact is that I don't know everybody in my city. And even among the 20 or so fellow sisters living here, we don't know everybody. That's why our alumnae panhellenic was formed in 1964. We host a spring tea, give our PNMs as much honest info as possible, and collect information forms from them.
Now, just because I have a resume doesn't mean I accept it without question. I take the resume and find somebody that you and I have in common. It may be a teacher I know at your school, or somebody in your church, or a neighbor, or a co-worker. I don't know everybody, but I do know enough people in town that I can find somebody we have in common who DOES know you. And if they think highly of you, and your activities and grades check out, then I will heartily recommend you. And I think that this recommendation will hold up just as well as one from someone who does know you personally. Of course, we would rather have those kinds of recommendations on everybody, but it's just not possible.
Going through with NO or FEW recommendations? Well, it's like this. When we have an opening at our shop, my husband does not place an ad in the newspaper or at monster.com. The first thing he does is ask our employees if they know somebody who needs a job. He interviews that person and then decides whether or not to hire him or her. But it was a recommendation from an employee that led to the next step.

[NUBlue&Blue]

Originally Posted by AnchorAlumna

While I respect this as well as Zillini's decision to never rec anybody she doesn't know personally, the fact is that I don't know everybody in my city. And even among the 20 or so fellow sisters living here, we don't know everybody. That's why our alumnae panhellenic was formed in 1964. We host a spring tea, give our PNMs as much honest info as possible, and collect information forms from them.
Now, just because I have a resume doesn't mean I accept it without question. I take the resume and find somebody that you and I have in common. It may be a teacher I know at your school, or somebody in your church, or a neighbor, or a co-worker. I don't know everybody, but I do know enough people in town that I can find somebody we have in common who DOES know you. And if they think highly of you, and your activities and grades check out, then I will heartily recommend you.

That's kind of how it works here. I have been a conduit for quite a few alums writing recs because I've had two girls in HS who've had friends in 4 different classes between the two of them, so I always honestly answer questions about what I know about them and always base my "yea or nay" on whether I would write a rec for them myself.

[aopirose]

Amen, Zillini.

I have spent some time trying to explain the exact same thing. The girls, more so the moms, kept harping on the fact that the GA said that recs were "not necessary." I said true but if you look at the rush guide and the website in bold letters it says, "Although not required, it is highly recommended to secure recommendations/references for the sororities at LSU by July 1. " It goes on to say, "It helps foster the process by seeking out sorority alumnae who can provide the recommendation. Potential members provide each person who writes a recommendation with a picture, copy of the transcript and activity sheet or resume. In the interest of time, it is helpful to be proactive in this process. By registering with or notifying your city/alumnae Panhellenic that you are participating in recruitment at LSU, they will assist you in obtaining recommendations."

It never ceases to amaze me when mom or daughter calls disappointed.