Minneapolis bridge collapses

KSig RC · #1 08-04-2007, 12:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jon1856

Minnesota officials were warned as early as 1990 that the bridge that collapsed into the Mississippi River was "structurally deficient," yet they relied on patchwork repairs and stepped-up inspections that unraveled amid a thunderous plunge of concrete and automobiles.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6005140/

This is a complete misrepresentation of what those words mean to actual civil engineers.

Just saying.

DeltAlum · #2 08-04-2007, 01:19 PM

"State transportation officials were warned as early as 1990 that the 40-year-old bridge was "structurally deficient" and in need of major repair or even replacement.

Federal inspectors gave the same forecast in 2005, but state engineers say the span was not slated for replacement until 2020.

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

This is a complete misrepresentation of what those words mean to actual civil engineers.

I don't know what they might mean to a civil engineer, but I'll bet a lot of judges and juries are going to hear them in the not too distant future.

Tom Earp · #3 08-04-2007, 04:49 PM

What is sad, is the state of roads and bridges in this country!

The first Inter-State was under DDE as Presidents Adm.

It was started for Military situations and was begun in Ks. I-70.

So, it was expanded to what We know as the Super Highways of today that We all enjoy!

But, they are going to crap and who pays for it?

Either We do or there are deaths such as these and it will not be the last!

States raise taxes and miss use them, period! Oh don't forget about poor contractors and shoddy construction such as the Big Did in Boston!

Scarry isn't it?

How many Bridges or shitty Highways do you drive on?

DeltAlum · #4 08-04-2007, 09:59 PM

Am I the only one who thinks about this?

As I have traveled across the country, I have wondered how much our infrastructure cost to build, and how much it would be to replace it.

It was really brought home to me when I was living in New York City and considering how old everything looks.

The collapse of the steam tunnel there, and now this bridge episode in Minnesota have really brought those thoughts home.

The overall situation is really scary.

How in the world can we ever replace this stuff as it just simply wears out?

kathykd2005 · #5 08-04-2007, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Am I the only one who thinks about this?

As I have traveled across the country, I have wondered how much our infrastructure cost to build, and how much it would be to replace it.

It was really brought home to me when I was living in New York City and considering how old everything looks.

The collapse of the steam tunnel there, and now this bridge episode in Minnesota have really brought those thoughts home.

The overall situation is really scary.

How in the world can we ever replace this stuff as it just simply wears out?

I was under the impression that they WERE fixing it when it collapsed. It seems to me that the blame here lies with the company who was orchestrating the update/repair of the bridge. I find it very suspicious that this bridge collapsed after being worked on and was scheduled to have more work done, when it has stayed up and running for years. Someone dropped the ball on this one...

DeltAlum · #6 08-04-2007, 10:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I was under the impression that they WERE fixing it when it collapsed. It seems to me that the blame here lies with the company who was orchestrating the update/repair of the bridge. I find it very suspicious that this bridge collapsed after being worked on and was scheduled to have more work done, when it has stayed up and running for years. Someone dropped the ball on this one...

I'll leave it to the engineering folks to figure that out.

I'm talking about replacing the stuff -- not sticking on a band-aid.

Sooner or later, band-aids don't help anymore.

kathykd2005 · #7 08-04-2007, 10:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

I'll leave it to the engineering folks to figure that out.

I'm talking about replacing the stuff -- not sticking on a band-aid.

Sooner or later, band-aids don't help anymore.

Well, unfortunately, people have to travel on those roads, so it is difficult to simply replace bridges and roads altogether. I am picturing city/state government attempting to replace roads and bridges, and people flipping out...

KSig RC · #8 08-06-2007, 10:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kathykd2005

I was under the impression that they WERE fixing it when it collapsed. It seems to me that the blame here lies with the company who was orchestrating the update/repair of the bridge. I find it very suspicious that this bridge collapsed after being worked on and was scheduled to have more work done, when it has stayed up and running for years. Someone dropped the ball on this one...

There's almost no chance, according to structural engineers, that a 4-inch gap in the roadway caused the bridge to fail. This was the work performed by the construction crew, according to reports.

The roadway construction really has nothing to do with the integrity of the structure, which is based on force elements of the truss and it's connection with the roadway on each side of the river and via the infamous "ten pins" across the span.

The very existence of the roadway crew on the bridge is likely an unfortunate strawman that will cause debate like this (and even the civil cases Delt mentioned), instead of discovery of the actual cause and problems that likely exist in other, similar bridges.

kathykd2005 · #9 08-06-2007, 01:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KSig RC

There's almost no chance, according to structural engineers, that a 4-inch gap in the roadway caused the bridge to fail. This was the work performed by the construction crew, according to report.

I believe it was a bit more complicated than a "4-inch gap" as you so gingerly put it. Both of these stories cite numerous problems with the bridge, most likely aggravated by the construction on the bridge:

http://wcco.com/local/local_story_217151047.html

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/nation..._bridge03.html

In the second article, an expert states,
"I would be stunned if this didn't have something to do with the construction project," said David Schulz, director of the Infrastructure Technology Institute at Northwestern University. "I think it's a major factor."

Although there is evidence for both sides of this argument, your assertion that the viewpoint I offered is completely unfounded is ridiculous. Experts, including "engineers," as you stated, are still not sure what caused the collapse. I was simply stating my own suspicions...

jon1856 · #10 08-04-2007, 10:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

Am I the only one who thinks about this?

As I have traveled across the country, I have wondered how much our infrastructure cost to build, and how much it would be to replace it.

It was really brought home to me when I was living in New York City and considering how old everything looks.

The collapse of the steam tunnel there, and now this bridge episode in Minnesota have really brought those thoughts home.

The overall situation is really scary.

How in the world can we ever replace this stuff as it just simply wears out?

CBS-Radio had a report the other day that put the cost at $5,500.00 per person in the US. Not sure if that was everyone or "taxpaying Adults".
It was over a Trillion dollars.
As someone else posted, states have used monies that were "dedicated" to road/highway/bridge repair for everything else.

As we as voters have been "taught" over the past several years to think that no tax raises or lower taxes would be good for us all.