Chico Again: Ice Water, Mud Crawl, etc. Alleged (Beta Theta Pi)

[Rudey]

Ice water in heat wave Cali? Sounds like torture...

-Rudey

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Ice water in heat wave Cali? Sounds like torture...

-Rudey

This could be:"then submerged them up to their necks in freezing water, subjecting them to hypothermia,"

[Kevin]

I think the word "likely" will cause the prosecution a lot of problems here.

It's a poorly written law.

To me, "likely" means at least 50%. Since no pledges became hypothermic, it appears that they were not "likely" to be injured.

[exlurker]

A little more information:

http://www.chicoer.com/ci_6373209?source=most_viewed

Brief excerpt from article:

Just days after three ex-fraternity members were charged with hazing violations, the lawyer for one of them says the case is being exaggerated and the men unfairly charged.

[OtterXO]

Originally Posted by Kevin

I think the word "likely" will cause the prosecution a lot of problems here.

It's a poorly written law.

To me, "likely" means at least 50%. Since no pledges became hypothermic, it appears that they were not "likely" to be injured.

I don't know if I agree with that. Using your logic, unless a pledge was actually injured they wouldn't be able to prosecute under that law. It seems like the intent was to be able to prosecute acts that might injure pledges but they wanted a stronger word than "may" or "might" so they picked "likely". That way they can encompass things that would "likely" cause injury even if they didn't cause injury in this particular circumstance.

[EE-BO]

Originally Posted by Rudey

Ice water in heat wave Cali? Sounds like torture...

-Rudey

Actually, ice water can be very dangerous.

I periodically take ice baths (voluntarily) after doing a lot of working out and/or running on a given day since it is a great relaxer- but I am very careful about the amount of ice in the water and how long I am in there.

2 bags of ice will melt pretty fast in a tub of cold water, but that small amount takes the temp down to around 60- and it is unsafe to be in there more than 20 minutes or so.

A slurry of water so cold that the ice is not melting fairly quickly will be colder still and can have grave consequences within 5 minutes.

I agree with you that it does not sound like a big deal on the face of it- but it is actually pretty serious stuff, especially if the person doing it has a minor heart condition that has never been detected (which is somewhat common and responsible for many past fraternity deaths after forced calisthenics.)

[jon1856]

Originally Posted by EE-BO

Actually, ice water can be very dangerous.

I periodically take ice baths (voluntarily) after doing a lot of working out and/or running on a given day since it is a great relaxer- but I am very careful about the amount of ice in the water and how long I am in there.

2 bags of ice will melt pretty fast in a tub of cold water, but that small amount takes the temp down to around 60- and it is unsafe to be in there more than 20 minutes or so.

A slurry of water so cold that the ice is not melting fairly quickly will be colder still and can have grave consequences within 5 minutes.

I agree with you that it does not sound like a big deal on the face of it- but it is actually pretty serious stuff, especially if the person doing it has a minor heart condition that has never been detected (which is somewhat common and responsible for many past fraternity deaths after forced calisthenics.)

BTB-Several of the WWII war criminals in Japan were hung for activities including putting Chinese and Allied POW into ice water.

No, I am not saying that the penalty here should be that.
Just how serious it can be.

Should also point out that the "records and information" that the Japanese obtained in their "experiments" and torture formed the basic for much of the US Navy dive manual.

[EE-BO]

Right on Jon.

And speaking of the Navy, it is worth noting that the immersion tables used by the SEALs in BUDS training provide for maximum immersion times in cold water ranging from 5-20 minutes depending on the water temperature and how long it has been since trainees were last in the water (and there is a decent interval of time in between immersions.)

It is not too hard to imagine an alcohol-induced hazing incident going well beyond those guidelines pretty quickly.

[exlurker]

Update on Chico Hazing Allegations:

The charges may have to be re-worded, according to this article:
http://www.orovillemr.com/news/ci_6856315

[jon1856]

Victims' anonymity at issue in hazing case

CHICO — A local appeals court has agreed to hear arguments why prosecutors should not be required to identify the purported victims in a Chico fraternity hazing case.

The Butte County District Attorney's Office has been directed to appear in court next month to show cause why it should not be required to name which of 13 pledges to the now-defunct Theta Beta Pi fraternity were criminally hazed during an initiation rite last spring. Prosecutors have taken the position they are not required to do so, contending the entire state of California is the victim under Matt's Law, an anti-hazing statute passed last year in memory of Matthew Carrington, a Chico State University pledge who died during a fraternity initiation ceremony in 2005.
http://www.chicoer.com/news/national/ci_8848135

[exlurker]

Update: "Not Guilty" Verdict in Chico Cold Water Case (Beta Theta Pi)

See article:

http://www.orovillemr.com/news/ci_13205846