Phi Retro Recruitment

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SmartBlondeGPhB

We leave it up to the woman to notify her family.

Interesting. Is this the national or local policy of your group? Did you decide on it for philosophical or purely pragmatic reasons?

I'm interested in how it evolved that way.

I can understand that it's primarily the PNM's business where she's invited back, but from the perspective of an alumna, if I had a legacy for whom I completed a legacy form, and she rushed at a campus with my group, especially if it were my own campus with my chapter, I would want to hear from the chapter that they had released her. It's somewhat about my legacy, but it's also about my relationship with the chapter.

Because, I'll be honest, at the point I had a legacy cut by a chapter, I think I'm done with that chapter in terms of interest and support. Your rejection of my flesh and blood, particularly if you aren't a group at a campus with hundreds of legacies where a chapter couldn't possible give bids to them all, is going to put a big dent in my feeling of connection to you.

At least, you could reach out to me with a phone call, or so it seems to me.

How did Gamma Phi Beta view the issue?

[SWTXBelle]

In the most recent edition of The Crescent, ( you can find it at www.gammaphibeta.org) there is a legacy introduction form. On it, it states that it is the policy of Gamma Phi Beta to allow the legacy to notify her mother/grandmother/person who makes her a legacy. So, International HQ's policy is to leave it up to the PNM.

[GeekyPenguin]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

In the most recent edition of The Crescent, ( you can find it at www.gammaphibeta.org) there is a legacy introduction form. On it, it states that it is the policy of Gamma Phi Beta to allow the legacy to notify her mother/grandmother/person who makes her a legacy. So, International HQ's policy is to leave it up to the PNM.

I actually like that we do this. Let's say that Suzy PNM is going through recruitment and after Day 2 she decides that she just doesn't like the Gamma Phi chapter that she iis an in-house legacy to and she is happier at the other houses she's visited. This way rather than saying "Mom, I hate your house and have ranked it last every day waiting to get dropped" she can just tell her mom/sister that she isn't going back to Gamma Phi, or even tell a little white lie and say she didn't get invited back. Maybe she'd rather wait to the end of recruitment and then just tell her mom how happy she is in XYZ.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by GeekyPenguin

I actually like that we do this. Let's say that Suzy PNM is going through recruitment and after Day 2 she decides that she just doesn't like the Gamma Phi chapter that she iis an in-house legacy to and she is happier at the other houses she's visited. This way rather than saying "Mom, I hate your house and have ranked it last every day waiting to get dropped" she can just tell her mom/sister that she isn't going back to Gamma Phi, or even tell a little white lie and say she didn't get invited back. Maybe she'd rather wait to the end of recruitment and then just tell her mom how happy she is in XYZ.

I generally think honesty among family members is the best route when it comes to explaining why you made the decisions that you have. I doubt that much long lasting harm will come of a girl choosing a group other than her legacy group if it's her choice, but maybe my family dynamics are exceptionally healthy that way. My experience is that we want other members of our families first to be happy with the decisions that they make. It's a bonus if they think they will be happy in our groups, but it's really not a big deal if they choose to go a different route.

On the other hand, no matter how much we value our groups, most of us in life as alums don't care about them as much as we do our own sisters, daughters or granddaughters. I can easily see alums who are a whole lot less likely to support a chapter who cut their legacies.
It would seem that maintaining relationships with the alumna member has a real value, and I wonder how Gamma Phi Beta reached the decision that they did, not that it's really any of my business.

It's possible that making the calls was creating a ton of ill will and hometown gossip while recruitment was still going on. And I certainly know that Gamma Phi Beta knows what's best for their organization. I'm not second guessing that. I just wonder how and why it evolved the way it did, and I wonder if more groups will go to it.

It certainly seems easiest in terms of membership selection and notification for the chapter in the short term.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

In the most recent edition of The Crescent, ( you can find it at www.gammaphibeta.org) there is a legacy introduction form. On it, it states that it is the policy of Gamma Phi Beta to allow the legacy to notify her mother/grandmother/person who makes her a legacy. So, International HQ's policy is to leave it up to the PNM.

Do you know how or why it got to be the policy? Has it always been that way?

(I understand why from a purely pragmatic and bureaucratic standpoint why it might be the "best" policy, but it seems like it would cause a great deal of harm over time with alumnae who had legacies released. I don't know, maybe it turns out that the phone call doesn't help anyway: if you cut the PNM, maybe nothing the chapter does affects the mother's future behavior with the chapter.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Because, I'll be honest, at the point I had a legacy cut by a chapter, I think I'm done with that chapter in terms of interest and support. Your rejection of my flesh and blood, particularly if you aren't a group at a campus with hundreds of legacies where a chapter couldn't possible give bids to them all, is going to put a big dent in my feeling of connection to you.

That's kind of petty. You and your (fictional) daughter aren't the same person. The CHAPTER itself is not the same. You'd rather they kept your (fictional) daughter, no matter how bad of a fit she is with the house? What if she rushed just because you put all kinds of pressure on her to rush, she acts like an ass at all of the parties and is rude to PNMs? Would you still expect your chapter to keep her?

[AGDLynn]

On another note, it's interesting how the member hasn't had contact with the GLO, may or may not even receive the magazine, for decades but suddenly seems to "know" how it operates...even though procedures may have changed since she/he was a collegiate.

[SWTXBelle]

I like the Gamma Phi Beta policy because it takes the responsiblity off of the chapter - she (the person writing the legacy form) knows that she will not be receiving a call if her legacy is not invited back, and it is international policy, not the "fault" of the chapter.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

I like the Gamma Phi Beta policy because it takes the responsiblity off of the chapter - she (the person writing the legacy form) knows that she will not be receiving a call if her legacy is not invited back, and it is international policy, not the "fault" of the chapter.

I can totally see why it's easiest for the chapters as they do recruitment, especially at big recruitments. At the chapters with hundreds of legacies going through, as a practical matter, the phone calls could take hours. I wonder if Gamma Phi Beta realized that the phone calls don't provide much comfort to the alums anyway.

[AGDLynn]

Do you think that they just look into it before the girl goes through recruitment?

Yup, you'd think they'd start at least when the pnm is a junior, lol.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AGDLynn

On another note, it's interesting how the member hasn't had contact with the GLO, may or may not even receive the magazine, for decades but suddenly seems to "know" how it operates...even though procedures may have changed since she/he was a collegiate.

Do you think that they just look into it before the girl goes through recruitment?

Certainly this would be a case where you don't have much to lose in terms of alumna support if you cut her.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

That's kind of petty. You and your (fictional) daughter aren't the same person. The CHAPTER itself is not the same. You'd rather they kept your (fictional) daughter, no matter how bad of a fit she is with the house? What if she rushed just because you put all kinds of pressure on her to rush, she acts like an ass at all of the parties and is rude to PNMs? Would you still expect your chapter to keep her?

AlphaFrog,

Actually, I wouldn't care if my legacies even went through recruitment, so there's not likely to be any pressure put on the girl from me.

But honestly at 150+ chapters like where I went to school, I don't buy in much to the idea of the chapter deciding a legacy is authentically "not a good fit for a the chapter" during rush because it's going to be based on a couple of very superficial meetings. There are all types of folks in each organization, really. What not being a good fit would likely mean on my old campus (but not so much at my chapter) in most cases would mean would be A. not cute enough/plump B. not popular enough in high school. C unknown by girls presently in the chapter. Are those the standards, particularly A and B, that you would want used in releasing legacies because that's what folks are probably using in most cases? (We also might add "not from the right type of family" when right type refers mainly to wealth and prominent social position, but that's only for a couple of chapters.)

I suspect that at my old campus legacies don't get much deference because many of the chapters have a couple of new members classes going through rush in any one year. If you know you can't give bids to them all, they you have to evaluate they just like non-legacies. But I don't think the standards actually used are particularly deep and meaningful assessments. Great girls get cut every year probably most often because they don't have connections in the chapter already.

And in the interest of honesty, your hypothetical that someone I raised or was raised with me would "act like an ass" at all of the parties and be rude is just insulting, don't you think? Sure some legacy might act like that but in that case, don't you think the girl is going to drop the group at the earliest opportunity?

I think less harm in done to alumnae relations when chapters communicate with alums about the decisions that they've made. Cutting someone's daughter is going to do harm to the relationship with that person, and not just to "petty" folks like me.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

AlphaFrog,

Actually, I wouldn't care if my legacies even went through recruitment, so there's not likely to be any pressure put on the girl from me.

But honestly at 150+ chapters like where I went to school, I don't buy in much to the idea of the chapter deciding a legacy is authentically "not a good fit for a the chapter" during rush because it's going to be based on a couple of very superficial meetings. There are all types of folks in each organization, really. What not being a good fit would likely mean on my old campus (but not so much at my chapter) in most cases would mean would be A. not cute enough/plump B. not popular enough in high school. C unknown by girls presently in the chapter. Are those the standards, particularly A and B, that you would want used in releasing legacies because that's what folks are probably using in most cases? (We also might add "not from the right type of family" when right type refers mainly to wealth and prominent social position, but that's only for a couple of chapters.)

I suspect that at my old campus legacies don't get much deference because many of the chapters have a couple of new members classes going through rush in any one year. If you know you can't give bids to them all, they you have to evaluate they just like non-legacies. But I don't think the standards actually used are particularly deep and meaningful assessments. Great girls get cut every year probably most often because they don't have connections in the chapter already.

And in the interest of honesty, your hypothetical that someone I raised or was raised with me would "act like an ass" at all of the parties and be rude is just insulting, don't you think? Sure some legacy might act like that but in that case, don't you think the girl is going to drop the group at the earliest opportunity?

I think less harm in done to alumnae relations when chapters communicate with alums about the decisions that they've made. Cutting someone's daughter is going to do harm to the relationship with that person, and not just to "petty" folks like me.

Ok, so you don't care if your "legacy" rushes, but if she does, she better not be cut from your chapter?? THAT makes sense.

Yes, Rush can be superficial, but it's still not an excuse that they should keep your "legacy" if she's less of a fit than another girl. And, if the chapter's standards of "fit" includes looks or activities, that's their prerogative.

Oh, and children are products of their enviroment, but that's not always a deciding factor. The best parents in the world that do everything right can end up raising a worthless excuse for a human being. So it's not really insulting your hypothetical parenting skills to imply that someone you raise could turn out the wrong way. Nature, in many cases, has been proven to be stronger than nurture.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

Ok, so you don't care if your "legacy" rushes, but if she does, she better not be cut from your chapter?? THAT makes sense.

Yes, Rush can be superficial, but it's still not an excuse that they should keep your "legacy" if she's less of a fit than another girl. And, if the chapter's standards of "fit" includes looks or activities, that's their prerogative.

Oh, and children are products of their enviroment, but that's not always a deciding factor. The best parents in the world that do everything right can end up raising a worthless excuse for a human being. So it's not really insulting your hypothetical parenting skills to imply that someone you raise could turn out the wrong way. Nature, in many cases, has been proven to be stronger than nurture.

My point is that you care much more deeply about the person related to you than you do the chapter already, which is why if I had a legacy I would want her to do what she wanted to do. It'd be fun if she joined my group, but not at the expense of her doing what she wanted to do.

On the other hand, my connection to a chapter is by its very nature weaker. And in the present is somewhat based on what the current members do. Rejecting my relative isn't going to strengthen those bonds.

If a person regards a chapter of her GLO on an even level with her regard for members of her own family, I think there maybe something wrong in that family to begin with. I would think a normal person would think of the relative ahead of the chapter, and it would be helpful in terms of alum relations for the chapter to keep in mind.

I know it's not possible for a chapter to keep every legacy. Even if it were, there are legitimate reasons why legacies could/should be cut.

I'm pointing out that a cutting legacies may weaken the lifelong relationships that members have with chapters and maybe even organizations. And I was wondering what Gamma Phi Beta knew about making the phone calls that caused them to not make them.

(It's hard for me to relate to the idea that you think a PNM is going to spontaneously but deliberately act like a jerk during recruitment rather than conduct herself in the manner she's been raised. It doesn't really matter if it's nature or nurture, but the time she goes off to college, she's probably going to have some foundation in knowing how to behave, good or bad. If you think that her choices are acting like a jerk vs. joining a group she doesn't want to join, I don't really think I look at membership the way you do.)

[AlphaFrog]

I guess having 2 kids, I'm going to pull the "love each one differently" card.

I love my daughter...and I hope that she chooses to rush, and if that college has ASA, it would be great if she went ASA. But, if my sisters there decided she wouldn't be a fit for that chapter, and cut her, it wouldn't change how I love ASA. Daughter and ASA are seperate loves...and if they someday become the same love, then great. But I know, it's not the chapter's obligation to keep me a happy and involved alum, that's my responsiblity.