Will someone explain to me, a mere Boy about Total?

[FuzzieAlum]

FuzzieAlum, it sounds like your campus has bigger problems than the quota total system. Most of my campuses have about 65% or 75% retention rate b/w sing-up and pledging. As a Panhellenic you guys should really meet and talk about why these women are not showing up for rush or are dropping out. Are the chapters dropping more people than they should be? Does being unhoused make the smaller groups even less desirable? If these discussions don't lead to anything your group should consider contacting your NPC area advisor and talking to her about your concerns. If Panhellenic has the money to fund it you can even request a visit from an NPC team to review what is going on and recommend changes to improve greek participation on your campus. [/B][/QUOTE]

This isn't something I really want to talk about on a message board, I hope that makes sense. I am an alum and I don't live anywhere near my university, so it makes it more difficult for me to find out what is really going on.

I can state these things for sure: Six, seven years ago, quota was regularly around 12-13 girls. Ceiling hasn't changed. The number of girls going through rush has dropped. The campus still hasn't switched to a no-frills rush, and it's not exactly a frilly campus. I wouldn't trust the Greek Life advisor as far as I could throw him, either.

I can tell you that being unhoused is a HUGE problem. When that chapter was founded, no sorority had a house. As Greek Life gave chapters houses, they were last in line because they were youngest. But as more chapters got houses, they used it as a selling point and not having a house made recruitment more difficult. Now rushees regularly say, "Oh, you don't have a house. What makes you a real sorority?" The other small chapter has the least desirable of all the sorority houses.

On the other hand, not all the problems are external to the smaller chapters, and that's not the kind of laundry I want to air in public.

[SigkapAlumWSU]

Originally posted by lifesaver
So let me start here with a quote: Originally posted by 33girl, "If your group is smaller, you HAVE to COB - you HAVE to have open bid parties all year - you HAVE to rush 24/7/365.
If you all care about the future of the greek system, which I know you do, this should be the attitude of everyone. Guys and girls, ya know, thats why they changed the name from rush to recruitment.

I completely agree with this. My house was one of the smaller houses on campus, and although we would get quota for formal rush, we (like all Houses) had some people drop right after and in the later weeks. I joined during COB right after rush, and gaining my membership through this process has made me appreciate it a whole lot more. We would COB our little tails off and make a reasonable goal (like 5-7 girls by the end of winter semester, 10-12 for spring) and almost consistently make them. The problem was, we were trying to get numbers up so much we were rushing quantity, not quality. This is where our retention problem came from. The year after I left, the house started to rush quality, throwing quota out of their heads( a very hard thing to do) and with their new base, increased their membership because of quality members wanting to stay and rush more quality members. This in turn showed the kind of house we were: willing to work hard, and not willing to take just anyone for the sake of quota. It worked. Now the house has many quality members, and has a higher membership than in years past. Althought they are still one of the smaller chapters, it's fine. We don't have a huge house, so smaller in our case is better. The New Member classes are tightly knight, and all the classes had a good bond.
Now I'm not saying that you can't rush quality and quantity at the same time, but it is a much harder thing to do. I am also not saying that the women we obtained when rushing for quantity didn't hold the same ideals, they are all wonderful women. Some might have had lower grades or shown less enthusiasm during rush. Other houses might not look at these women, but we gave them a chance to know greek life all the same. And to those that greek life was right, they stayed and helped us grow. All you need is a bunch of good women willing to give their all to meet your goal. Above all, make your goal realistic. If it is just a huge number in the sky, you might never get there and feel worse for having not met it. If you make your goal small and reasonable, think how you will feel when you exceed it!
COB is just what it says: Continuous. Never stop rushing. The woman sitting in your classes are PNM, the ones you pass in the hall. How you portray yourself and your sorority does matter. We dressed up in pin attire every other Monday, and wore letters every Wed. If we were wearing letters, we didn't look like we just rolled out of bed, but we didn't have to be all beautified either. We also tried to participate in every Philanthropy event we could, and had sisters come and watch if they weren't participating for support. We would go to each other's preformances and show, and wear letters to sporting events. We would put EVERYTHING in the paper, from new officers, to NM classes, pinings, University scholarships, thanks to our philanthropy coaches, anything we could think of. Just getting people to see our name everywhere makes a difference. When you ask people whose letters you see on campus, it's the people who do all of these things. Be proud of who you are, and the organization you represent.

[shadokat]

We can harp on total and quota and such, but it works. Allow me to provide two examples.

1) At my university, when I went through recruitment, there were 10 sororities. The two largest were at about 45 members, with total being 60. Nobody ever reached 60, so nobody worried about total. Now, if you go back to my university today, quota is only 52, and about 3 of the 10 sororities have hit total. Quota is still enforced. But the funny thing is, that one of the two that was biggest in 1993 when I rushed is now nearly defunct. And two sororities that really sucked in 1993 are now huge. How does that happen? I can't explain it, but I know that lowering total helped them pick up women that couldn't go to the larger groups, and thus ALL groups grow.

2) At the university where D Phi E just colonized, there are four sororities. Two have been there for awhile, another is about 4 years old, and we're about 5 months old. The two well established groups have about 50-55 members each. The four year old group has 65, with total being 52. By having a total on their chapters, they afforded an opportunity for another group to join the campus and be competitive. In their fifth month, our group is nearing 35 members, with more than 2 months until chartering.

Let's face it, if you're in a big group, you're not hip to quota and total and those cuts you have to make after your first round of parties to make the percentages equal. If you're smaller, you want that system, because it enables you to grow despite your smaller size. I'm in complete agreement with TriSigmaTX. Despite the competition that recruitment often generates, I want ALL sororities to succeed. And by providing an environment where this is working is what NPC is doing.

Fraternity rush at my school was a free for all. The guys had keg parties for like 2 weeks, and the fraternity who could serve the most beer basically won the recruitment competition. If that's all recruitment is about, count me out. Also, fraternity rush sells so many things...our fraternities have beer, girls, among other things at all of their recruitment parties. Nobody really shows the brotherhood aspect or the community service aspect. Could just be my campus, but I doubt it.

Anyways, a lot of this is rambling, but I'm a big proponent of quota and total. It works to keep 26 groups healthy and strong.

[lifesaver]

Originally posted by shadokat

Fraternity rush at my school was a free for all. The guys had keg parties for like 2 weeks, and the fraternity who could serve the most beer basically won the recruitment competition. If that's all recruitment is about, count me out. Also, fraternity rush sells so many things...our fraternities have beer, girls, among other things at all of their recruitment parties. Nobody really shows the brotherhood aspect or the community service aspect. Could just be my campus, but I doubt it.

Anyways, a lot of this is rambling, but I'm a big proponent of quota and total. It works to keep 26 groups healthy and strong.

Now I know a lot of fraternity rush is about selling the women and social. But not all. I KNOW with a 95% certainty, that if I can get a prospect to hang out with my chapter, he'll usually sign. The sense of brotherhood is tangeable. We got to be largest by stressing academics, brotherhood and our diversity. It worked. But remember, I didnt say that the NIC recruitment was the answer. I just said I believe there has to be a way to put the emphasis back on the PNM's in sorority recruitment, and adress declining numbers. You said "I'm a big proponent of quota and total. It works to keep 26 groups healthy and strong." my question then, is this; If fraternities (NIC) use a different system, what explains the viability and success of the 67 member orgs that comprise the NIC? I am just saying NIC is healthy and strong as well. Arent you open to the discussion of another system? Not necessarily mine, but another?

[Tom Earp]

Life, I am not sure how the Soroitys do it now, but both the F/S had formal rush and each individual had to put down 3 choices! If they put down less and were not called, they were out till next go around! Im not sure what cob and pnm is! Someone plesase inlighten me!

I agree with some limitation on chapters as the smaller ones will not stay! We have a old house but looking to build a new one and all of the Actives think this will build the membership! Yes it does up to a certain point!

LXA had a large Building and memership at one time and as of now there is no longer a Chapter there!

The main thing is to sell yourselves to the new recruits! That is what counts and I know My guys at Almamater are not doing that! They always have an excuse! That is why I have been back incolved for the last 4 years along with some other Alums!

Building, Name, Numbers, what counts is the people in the Organization! YOU Each have to sell yourselves! Grin a lot and sell sell sell!

[LexiKD]

If a house is having trouble and numbers are an issue then total and so on becomes problematic. But it does keep things fair and in the long run it is a good tool to measure each group's progress. A strong group hovers around total and usually makes quota whereas a weaker group struggles with keeping total and/or making quota.

At ECU we need a minimum number of members to keep dues down and our houses running. If we didn't have total and quota's many houses would be in money trouble. I do think total could be incesed a few memebers per year.

Also, IFC doesn't stress numbers and we have many fraternities with tons of members and some with no members. It is hard to recruit if the odds are not even and larger groups have that edge. Like the colony someone was talking about, it is hard to recruit if some houses are at 100 and yours is at 40, not to mention the more work it is to keep a smaller chapter running since the same is expected of both and you have half the members to carry it out.

Numbers are always a challenge but it is a great accomplishment when you get the hang of them.

[carnation]

If sororities at many Southern universities, especially the big ones, didn't have ceilings and quotas, many sororities would die pretty rapidly. In the South, many girls know (or think they know) what sororities they want before they set foot on campus and very often they're the traditional Southern sororities. Likewise, at certain large Midwestern and Western sororities there are certain other groups that hold the reins.

Y'all may have noticed this when the rushees on GC speak of what's powerful in their area and which groups they start out wanting. I think that few NPC sororities would be willing to drop quotas, etc., because everyone is vulnerable someplace in the country and can't afford to lose big numbers of chapters. I don't care how fabulous a rush XYZ puts on at certain campuses, XYZ will likely never be one of the top groups just because of local opinion.

[33girl]

thanks laura - I did mean quota at the one place I said total! Duh

lifesaver, I understand why you think the whole thing is so confusing. But a few thoughts - NPC originally passed the "no-frills" resolution in 1991. Yes ladies, 10 YEARS AGO. And has it been put into place on all campuses? I think we know the answer to that one. It was also supposed to emphasize that "recruitment is 365 days a year" and de-emphasize the importance of formal rush. On the whole, has that happened? Again, I think we know the answer. You can't make policies and then not do anything to enforce them. If so, why did you bother making it in the first place?

At the same time this resolution was passed, rush numbers were declining from a 10-15 year high. And that made everyone more stressed out and competitive. I don't recall EVER hearing of a rush infraction on my campus, other than the big ones like promising bids, or a Rho Chi accidentally revealing her GLO. Why? We were all doing pretty well, and wanted to stay on good terms with one another and not rock the boat. These rush infractions for confetti on a rushee's shoe....I've never heard anything so ridiculous. That's not what no-frills was supposed to be about. But everyone is worried about keeping numbers high, so you get that kind of thing happening. I'm not saying every college is like this, but if you do have people getting anal about confetti and nametags, you have a problem with Panhel unity.

The quota/total rules work if 1) the rushees really do go in with open minds and 2) the college Panhel makes rules and policies that will benefit the college, the rushees and the Greek system at large, not just their own groups. That's what Greek unity is all about.

Plus, if everyone would walk the no-frills walk, instead of just talking the talk, it would do what it was theoretically supposed to do.

[pinkangel]

I completely agree about the "no frills walk." My school is currently restructuring the system for formal recruitment. We have already moved formal rush from the fall semester to the spring semester. Currently, panhel and a committee of girls from each chapter are debating and deciding on the other rules that will be implemented. Because of all the changes, there has been a lot of talk outside the meetings about what should be done. We were talking about older rules, and I thought this one was particularly enjoyable:
We weren't allowed to distribute gifts at Greek Carnival during freshman orientation week that exceeded the cost of $0.25.
I don't remember who told me, but an alum of another chapter mentioned that when she was in undergrad, panhel actually had a rule that limited the diameter of cookies that the sororities could hand out!

These are silly, and petty, but they're for a reason. I don't entirely agree with them, but they make sure that a large sorority with lots of money, or one with better alumni support doesn't have an unfair advantage. Unfortunately, girls can be petty and childish at times! (don't gloat guys, you can be too!)

It would be nice to move beyond all of this and have a more practical system that is still fair. I think the best we can hope for are small changes each year until we achieve what was originally intended with Panhel.

33girl, I didn't know about that "no frills" resolution. But how effective can it be with chapters above total, they can't give out bids so they have no need to rush very seriously. Perhaps it's really intended to help the chapters below total.


Tom earp, cob is continuous open bidding and pnm is a potential new member

[shadokat]

I would like to reiterate that on MY campus, the fraternities promote social and women. I've seen it like that on other campuses. In no way would I imply that this is everywhere.

My post was intended to show that even if you don't like the NPC system of recruitment, it IS better than the way fraternities do it. As LexiKD said, and it's this way in a lot of places, fraternities on campuses have such a large difference in their amount of members. Some have 10 members, while another group has 80. If you were a guy going through recruitment, you'd more than likely pick the 80 guy group. It's human nature I would think.

And someone state that you have 67 strong NIC organizations. Do you think that all 67 of those are strong? I mean, you've got like 10 or 15 really big guns in NIC, but aside from those, you've got some VERY small groups as well. I guess it's all relative.

Again, I know quota/total is a hard thing to advocate, but I really do think it works if implemented properly.

[matthewg]

Originally posted by shadokat
Some [fraternities] have 10 members, while another group has 80. If you were a guy going through recruitment, you'd more than likely pick the 80 guy group. It's human nature I would think.

Sorry, but I have to disagree on this point - maybe it is different with other people or esp. women vs. men.
I personally would choose the group of people that are nice and that I connect with and not necessarily look for size. It might be a factor but only a minor one.
Again - just personal opinion.