How does your school handle bidless PNMs on bid day?

[KSUViolet06]

We are not a guaranteed placement school, but our placement rate is pretty good.

I'd say if you attend at least one pref, you have a 98% chance of getting bid. Out of about 100 girls attending at least one pref party, all but 2 or 3 of them received a bid.

Those 3 who didn't were all girls who attended more than one pref, but chose to Intentional Single Pref.

I think that guranteed placement goes against the mutual selection process that recruitment is supposed to be.

[jwright25]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Guaranteed placement is a bad idea, IMO. If a girl is only invited to one pref party, what's to say that she didn't snub another chapter earlier on? Let's say there are five chapters, and she behaves like a beast at four of them because she only wants to be an XYZ. Hardly fair to let her pick like that and guaranteed her the bid to XYZ.

That is very true, and I've seen it happen. But as long as XYZ wants her enough to keep her coming back to their parties, it's basically the same result, right? Or perhaps some would argue that it is better this way - rather than continuing to attend parties at chapters that she knows she would never take, she gets them to release her early and then invite someone else who might actually be interested. If XYZ didn't want her, they'd cut her before Preference.

But that does bring up an interesting way to dodge the system. A chapter could dirty rush a girl and tell her to be mean to everyone else to where she gets cut. Then she'd get only one invite to Pref, the chapter puts her at the bottom of the list, and gets her as a QA. Lots of room for problems to happen though - like chapters who are supposed to invite everyone back each night, etc. But something to think about anyway!

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by jwright25

But that does bring up an interesting way to dodge the system. A chapter could dirty rush a girl and tell her to be mean to everyone else to where she gets cut. Then she'd get only one invite to Pref, the chapter puts her at the bottom of the list, and gets her as a QA. Lots of room for problems to happen though - like chapters who are supposed to invite everyone back each night, etc. But something to think about anyway!

I still say that any girl willing to play 4th string like that has problems. If a group doesn't want you enough to put you on their first bid list (or at least high enough that you get a bid fairly) why do you want them?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Nothing anyone says is particularly comforting to a girl who is dealing with what is quite possibly the first rejection she's ever had in her life.

In addition, I think that having a non Greek say stuff like "You can have fun at college without being in a sorority. I'm involved in governement, rec league soccer, etc" is not going to comfort her. If she wanted government or soccer, she would've joined that in the first place.

It's like when people suggest that girls join other groups on GC when girls go bidless. It doesn't help because it's not what they want. She wants bigs/littles, date parties, block seating at football games, formal, etc.

I think a professional counselor being available is a good idea though because they are a trained professional.

I think we're really talking about two different things. You're talking about girls upset enough to need professional counselors. I'm, and I think DeltaBetaBaby too, talking about girls who might be bummed out that it didn't work out like they'd hoped who might benefit from a reminder that there are other aspects to college than Greek Life. I agree that it doesn't 100% make up for the disappointment, but it's still be nice to offer it, particularly with people especially invited for the purpose. I'm kind of thinking similar in general outlook to the folks who do summer orientation.

[KSUViolet06]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

I think we're really talking about two different things. You're talking about girls upset enough to need professional counselors. I'm, and I think DeltaBetaBaby too, talking about girls who might be bummed out that it didn't work out like they'd hoped who might benefit from a reminder that there are other aspects to college than Greek Life.

Yeah I agree. There are 2 types of bidless PNMs. There's the type who is bummed, but eager to find something else to get involved in and move on with college. Those girls could benefit from talking to a highly-involved non-Greek woman.

Then there's the type who is crushed and thinks college is ruined because she is not in a sorority. Those most likely cannot be comforted by anyone (PX, non-Greek, school counselors). Those are the girls who will probably just need time to realize that yes, college goes on.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSUViolet06

Yeah I agree. There are 2 types of bidless PNMs. There's the type who is bummed, but eager to find something else to get involved in and move on with college. Those girls could benefit from talking to a highly-involved non-Greek woman.

Then there's the type who is crushed and thinks college is ruined because she is not in a sorority. Those most likely cannot be comforted by anyone (PX, non-Greek, school counselors). Those are the girls who will probably just need time to realize that yes, college goes on.

I agree. And I think there are some that go back and forth about how big a deal it is and it they are only around happy, happy NPC girls, it starts to seem like a bigger deal.

I never knew anyone personally who left school because of her rush results, but there were rumors to that effect. The president of SGA taking her out for coffee probably wouldn't change that. But the girls I knew who rushed last year and dropped out (because they didn't like their results) probably would have felt better to meet some other successful students who weren't caught up in Greek Life.

[DeltaBetaBaby]

I think this is especially important on a campus like my own where greeks are like 22% of the students, but 70% of the SGA, 50% of the senior 100, etc. Some girls rushing obviously have their heart set on a sorority, but others, like myself, just see it initially as a good way to make connections, meet people, etc. Meeting non-greeks would help to some extent.

[ChildoftheHorn]

Originally Posted by DeltaBetaBaby

Guaranteed placement is a bad idea, IMO. If a girl is only invited to one pref party, what's to say that she didn't snub another chapter earlier on? Let's say there are five chapters, and she behaves like a beast at four of them because she only wants to be an XYZ. Hardly fair to let her pick like that and guaranteed her the bid to XYZ.

I really don't think that happens very often for those cases. Potentially, the sororities could just send that sort of thing to someone's attention. In which case, it would really be right to cut her from all houses.

I am more of the opinion that if a girl went to the effort of going through the whole system, that says something about the person. They are giving it a chance. If a girl has a hard time representing herself, she is making the effort to change (sororities do help social skills). She is also showing that she does have something to offer.

I would say Guaranteed Bid, so long as they follow all the rules and the pledge classes are not too big.

*This would also help some of the stigmas about Greek life give up the ghost.

[aephi alum]

Originally Posted by jwright25

But that does bring up an interesting way to dodge the system. A chapter could dirty rush a girl and tell her to be mean to everyone else to where she gets cut. Then she'd get only one invite to Pref, the chapter puts her at the bottom of the list, and gets her as a QA. Lots of room for problems to happen though - like chapters who are supposed to invite everyone back each night, etc. But something to think about anyway!

That could very easily blow up in the PNM's face, though.

Let's say Susie PNM is Kathy XYZ's rush crush, and Kathy really wants Susie to become an XYZ. Kathy takes Susie aside and tells her that they use guaranteed placement, so Susie should be rude and mean at the other sororities' parties, so she only gets one pref invite, to XYZ, and she will be placed at XYZ, guaranteed.

Susie takes Kathy's advice and is rude at all the other sororities' parties. The other sororities, of course, cut her, and Susie becomes known as "the rude PNM". Other sorority members talk to their XYZ friends and tell them how awful Susie is.

When XYZ's membership selection comes around, there are a bunch of sisters who know how rude Susie was to their friends in other sororities... and Kathy is just one sister. So, Susie is cut from XYZ.

Now, Susie has been completely released from recruitment, and will probably never get a bid anywhere, because everyone will remember her as "the rude PNM" for the rest of her college career.

It's always best to keep an open mind and make up your own mind when accepting invitations and filling out your pref card.

[lauralaylin]

At a school I volunteered at, if a pnm was completely cut by all the sororities, she went back to the ones she liked the most. If she was completely cut again, the same was true. So she basically was able to choose where she ended up. One year we were going to get stuck with someone that was NOT a good fit with the chapter, but because she was so rude to another group, the GA actually didn't honor the guaranteed placement in her case, so we lucked out. So being rude doesn't always work.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

At a school I volunteered at, if a pnm was completely cut by all the sororities, she went back to the ones she liked the most. If she was completely cut again, the same was true. So she basically was able to choose where she ended up. One year we were going to get stuck with someone that was NOT a good fit with the chapter, but because she was so rude to another group, the GA actually didn't honor the guaranteed placement in her case, so we lucked out. So being rude doesn't always work.

So much for membership selection if the PNMs get to keep going back, even after they're cut.

[ForeverRoses]

That is insane! So a girl could "be not quite rude" to certain groups to get purposely cut, then go back to the "popular" groups that dropped her? AND she would get a bid? talk about a crazy system.
Mutual selection is supposed to be, MUTUAL-not we are shoving this PNM down your throat because she really wants you.

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

At a school I volunteered at, if a pnm was completely cut by all the sororities, she went back to the ones she liked the most. If she was completely cut again, the same was true. So she basically was able to choose where she ended up. One year we were going to get stuck with someone that was NOT a good fit with the chapter, but because she was so rude to another group, the GA actually didn't honor the guaranteed placement in her case, so we lucked out. So being rude doesn't always work.

This is so wrong....cut is cut.

[susan314]

Originally Posted by lauralaylin

At a school I volunteered at, if a pnm was completely cut by all the sororities, she went back to the ones she liked the most. If she was completely cut again, the same was true. So she basically was able to choose where she ended up. One year we were going to get stuck with someone that was NOT a good fit with the chapter, but because she was so rude to another group, the GA actually didn't honor the guaranteed placement in her case, so we lucked out. So being rude doesn't always work.

That's horrible! I'm surprised that the advisors/national reps from the sororities on campus didn't fight that a little more.

Its one thing to guarantee someone a bid if she gets invited to preference - if a chapter invites you to a pref party, you're likely someone they'd be willing to accept as a member and appear on their bid list somewhere. But its a totally different thing to take away that chapter's right to cut you before preference.

Doesn't seem like that great of a situation for the PNM either - sure, they end up in the chapter they want, but how welcome are you going to feel in a chapter where people resent you b/c they tried to drop you before pref and Panhel forced them to invite you back? I'd be curious to see the retention stats for PNMs who were matched this way - bet a lot of them end up dropping out.

[ISUKappa]

Originally Posted by PenguinTrax

This is so wrong....cut is cut.

No kidding. This isn't kindergarten T-ball where everyone gets a participation ribbon and a pat on the head, this is Collegiate Sorority Recruitment. Sheesh.

IBME that chapter members do not know where a PNM is placed on the bid list. So I don't know if intentionally putting Sally PNM at the bottom of the list to guarantee a QA would work.

I *have* heard of chapters dirty rushing by telling PNMs to drop out of recruitment and go through informal and they would be given a bid to XYZ that way.