White men in NPHC

[L.O.C.K.]

Aiya, this thread has gotten out of hand.

Who cares what race someone is? I've seen people who are not of "X" race care more about causes that help "X" race than poeple of "X" race.

It's about what's in your heart, not whats on your skin. D9 orgs have great missions, and the vision of their Founders, or anyone elses for that matter, was designed for a specific reason. If someone is all about living the 5 Point thrusts (or any org's principles for that matter), isn't that what matters?

After all, if they volunteer their whole life to help education systems that are flawed or grew up advocating for Mental Health improvements (which btw need to be focused on a lot more), that is what is important, right?

I am not trying to say who should or should not be a member of XYZ org. Everyone makes their decisions as to who should be a member for their own personal reasons. However, when we come down to it, our organizations were established to advance certain goals and dreams, and if a person stands for that, and meets the other basic requirements (ie GPA, a student, etc.) that is what should matter...not the color of his/her skin.

I am one of the WASPiest people you will ever meet, yet I am in an Asian American Fraternity and all of my friends are Black/Asian/Latino/a. Just because I was born with White skin doesn't meet I can't strive for things that advance Blacks, Asians, or Latino/as.

If we judge people only on their skin, how are we any better than the KKK or other racist ass groups?

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Who cares what race someone is?

You mean well, but you don't seem to see that you are in a position in which you can express a sentiment like this. As a white man in the U.S., you are dealt nothing more than cultural slaps on the wrist for the countercultural views you express.

Restricting membership in BGLOs, AGLOs and LGLOs is about more than racial discrimination. I'd be interested in hearing from all the D9 founders regarding how they would perceive the intentions of white members. In this thread, people have suggested that the founders would be honored by the attention of whites. I'm positive the founders would scoff at the presumptuousness of that idea.

Your heart is in the right place, but try to understand the issue from a non-white perspective.

[preciousjeni]

Originally posted by fantASTic
preciousjeni: You are basically expressing a sentiment which I just don't understand. There is nothing a white person can SAY that's acceptable! If we say, "I don't care WHAT race you are," then we are told that we just say that because we're white. If we ever said, "You're black/asian/latino/etc and it matters to me," you know it would be a huge deal. What would be an acceptable statement?

I simply don't think things will ever be completely equal until whites AND non-whites say, "I don't care what race you are or what race I am." And from the views expressed in this thread, it's not the Caucasians who are having trouble with this statement.

However, I digress.

It's not simply the statement "I don't care what race you are" that's a problem. It's the belief that making the statement makes it a reality. Qualify that statement with further evidence that you realize how this country truly is. To an extent, you're right that things won't "ever be completely equal until whites AND non-whites say, 'I don't care what race you are or what race I am.'" But, how can that ever be a reality while vast disparities persist in areas such as access to health care, mortality, banking/finance/lending rates/homeownership, justice/incarceration, etc?

Caucasians in this thread are having trouble with this statement.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

It's not simply the statement "I don't care what race you are" that's a problem. It's the belief that making the statement makes it a reality. Qualify that statement with further evidence that you realize how this country truly is. To an extent, you're right that things won't "ever be completely equal until whites AND non-whites say, 'I don't care what race you are or what race I am.'" But, how can that ever be a reality while vast disparities persist in areas such as access to health care, mortality, banking/finance/lending rates/homeownership, justice/incarceration, etc?

Bravo!

Add to that how people's perceptions and interactions DO vary by things like race, gender, social class, sexual orientation, and region of the country.

None of us are blank slates who treat everyone the same regardless of who, "what," and how they are.

But power differentials make it such that those with the greatest power's perceptions and interactions have the biggest impact on society.

[DSTCHAOS]

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Aiya, this thread has gotten out of hand.

How?

Do you people exist in worlds where people don't talk about this stuff?

NOT talking about this stuff is the problem. That's when it's so invisible that these issues can persist without any challenge to the status quo.

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

Who cares what race someone is? I've seen people who are not of "X" race care more about causes that help "X" race than poeple of "X" race.

What's the significance of this?

And who cares what race someone is? You do. I do. We all do.

People just care in different ways and with different outcomes.

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

It's about what's in your heart, not whats on your skin.

The reality is that it's about what's on your skin and in your heart. Both shape our perceptions and interactions in both positive and negative ways.

The problem with some of you is that you think that the opposite of bigotry is to completely ignore ANY constructed differences across groups of people. That's completely unnecessary because it feeds the system of inequality, not fights it. Not to mention I consider it a comical spectacle.

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

I am one of the WASPiest people you will ever meet, yet I am in an Asian American Fraternity and all of my friends are Black/Asian/Latino/a. Just because I was born with White skin doesn't meet I can't strive for things that advance Blacks, Asians, or Latino/as.

So you do care what race someone is. At least enough to keep a record of what type of org you're in and who your friends are.

Trust that your white skin still gets you places where their Black, Asian, and Latino/a skin doesn't. If you want to speak out against something, speak out against that.

Originally Posted by L.O.C.K.

If we judge people only on their skin, how are we any better than the KKK or other racist ass groups?

Huh?

You probably also believe that racism is about Archie Bunker-esque people and Klan costumes.

You and your post support why this discussion is needed. Everyday.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by DSTCHAOS

The problem with some of you is that you think that the opposite of bigotry is to completely ignore ANY constructed differences across groups of people. That's completely unnecessary because it feeds the system of inequality, not fights it. Not to mention I consider it a comical spectacle.

Chaos - this is what I was trying to get at. You made it much more clear than I did.

[AOII Angel]

I think everyone likes to believe that they would accept anyone of any race into their group. The truth of the matter is, you accept anyone of any race who acts like your group into your group. A typical, white bread girl wouldn't join a NPHC group because in the end she'd likely have little in common even if she believed in the goals of the group. The same for the typical NPHC woman. African american women in NPC groups obviously feel comfortable in a white environment....we may all have african american sisters, but they are still a minority. I'm sure white women who grew up with african american friends in african american culture may feel more comfortable in an NPHC sorority. I see nothing wrong with wanting sisters who have your same goals, morals, culture, etc. It's human nature to want to be around those most like you. It doesn't have to mean your racist. That being said, I'd gladly welcome a sister of any race into AOII.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The truth of the matter is, you accept anyone of any race who acts like your group into your group. A typical, white bread girl wouldn't join a NPHC group because in the end she'd likely have little in common even if she believed in the goals of the group.

I disagree. I believe that we look for women who are comfortable with themselves and their surroundings. If, what you call a "typical, white bread girl" is comfortable around women of color, and doesn't let herself get bullied into feeling like she doesn't belong, she'll be fine. However, that's not the case usually.

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The same for the typical NPHC woman.

There is no such thing.

But this is the fraternity recruitment forum...

[TheEpitome1920]

Can someone summarize this for me? lol.

Get in where you fit in.

[AOII Angel]

Originally Posted by Sugar08

I disagree. I believe that we look for women who are comfortable with themselves and their surroundings. If, what you call a "typical, white bread girl" is comfortable around women of color, and doesn't let herself get bullied into feeling like she doesn't belong, she'll be fine. However, that's not the case usually.



There is no such thing.

But this is the fraternity recruitment forum...

I don't think it has to all be on the rushee. The organization is what it is. You may feel comfortable with members of another race, but the goals, ideals, format of the organization may not mesh with the individual. That's okay. That's why we have so many types of organizations around to fit the individual. Being comfortable with who you are and those around you is why most women have close friends like themselves. I personally feel very comfortable around women of color having gone to a predominantly african american high school and having worked extensively with african american men and women in my line of work as well as treating predominantly african american patients in my hospital. That being said, on a cultural level I am much different than my african american friends. I don't think I'd personally feel as comfortable in an NPHC group as in my own group. Culturally we are different. We have very different ideas on how a sorority should operate,etc. But...that's me. I think this is what most people are trying to say when they object to white people in NPHC groups. It's okay if you want to be there, but for most people they'd want to know the specific reasons behind the member's decision to join a group of a different culture. And what I meant by a "typical wheat bread sorority girl" is that the average NPC sorority member is caucasian, raised in a caucasian community with limited exposure to african american culture. This girl isn't going to join a group of another culture because she knows nothing about it. I don't think you can argue that, it's human nature.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

And what I meant by a "typical wheat bread sorority girl" is that the average NPC sorority member is caucasian, raised in a caucasian community with limited exposure to african american culture.

Maybe at your school, but certainly not at mine.

[mulattogyrl]

Originally Posted by AOII Angel

The same for the typical NPHC woman.

There aren't any 'typical' NPHC women. We're all very different. Having similar colored skin doesn't make us anything alike. Believe me, lol. What we do have in common are education & the goals of our orgs.

[Sugar08]

Originally Posted by mulattogyrl

There aren't any 'typical' NPHC women. We're all very different. Having similar colored skin doesn't make us anything alike. Believe me, lol. What we do have in common are education & the goals of our orgs.

Well said, sistergreek.

[DSTCHAOS]

Sure, we're all different but some generalizations that aren't stereotyping can be made. For instance, Delta's national website breaks down some demographics from which someone could somewhat accurately deduce a "typical Delta."

So many of us have education, goals of our orgs, and things like occupations and region of initiation/activity in common.