Would You Join a Masonic Lodge?

[CutiePie2000]

Translation: we don't want you joining other organizations that might siphon off your money that might have come to the church instead. Therefore, we forbid you from joining these organizations so that you can divert your money to us.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by CutiePie2000

Translation: we don't want you joining other organizations that might siphon off your money that might have come to the church instead. Therefore, we forbid you from joining these organizations so that you can divert your money to us.

No, not really. If that were so they'd prohibit many other activities such as donating money to the poor not through the church, making donations to schools, hospitals, etc. or joining organizations like GLOs.

There's theological reasoning behind it, please see the above link for more info, but don't just make a comment criticising either Lutheran or Catholic teachings out of ignorance. In general they object because they view the Masonic rituals as bad theology.

[PeppyGPhiB]

My grandfather was a mason/shriner and my grandma (his wife) was in Order of the Eastern Star. I have her pin.

[dekeguy]

As a practicing Roman Catholic I am somewhat confused by the position attrtibuted to the RC Church regarding Freemasonry. Before I joined my Grandfather's Lodge I asked my Archbishop to explain what was the straight story. He said that the Church was opposed to any organization that professed Athesim or anti-religious policies. After the experience of the French revolution where certain French lodges denounced belief in God and attempted to eliminate religion the RC Church condemned the Masonic order. Back in the 1960s Pope Paul VI met with the then Duke of Kent, Grand Master of Masons in England and Wales, who pointed out that regular official Masons were equally opposed to those types of organizations and likewise condemned any who fell into that category. The mistrust and animosity seems to have been an long term outgrowth of Catholic-Protestant misconceptions and misunderstandings. The Duke assured the Pope that the Masons had no fundamental objections to RC members and the Pope said that as a result of this illuminating discussion he had no objection to Catholic laity becoming (regular) Masons. If clergy wished to join they should obtain permission from their Bishop or Abbot or Religious Order Superior. The current Duke (his son and also Grand Master) has been very open to Catholic Masons and very supportive of cooperation and mutuality of interests with the RC Church.
Years later when I was in the UK I asked the late Cardinal Basil Hume about this and he said that Pope John Paul II was widely quoted in the press as saying that he saw no problem with Catholic Laity joining a "regular" lodge but a very grave problem with Catholics becoming involved with any of the "irregular" lodges or purportedly masonic organizations which allowed antireligious, athestic, or politically anti-church aims or professed attitudes. The quotation from the then Cardinal Ratzinger predates Pope John Paul II's quoted (and not to my knowledge ever denied or refuted) comments by several years. I am unaware of any new statements by Pope Benedict to contradict the comments of Pope John Paul. Absent any new information I am at a loss to figure out what the problem would be for Catholics to be Masons and Masons to be Catholics. Anybody have anything that would be helpful in this?

[Drolefille]

I had this long typed up thing, but basically this : http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm
Approved by the Pope, issued by Ratzinger. I found no documentation of JPII saying anything else unless you include those world conspiracy sites that say the Pope IS a Mason which strikes me as just a wee little bit unlikely. So I don't believe that there were comments by JPII to contradict Ratzinger's (again, papally approved) document. And that document was only clarification that the same rules still apply.

Being a Mason as a Roman Catholic is being in a state of sin and one should not receive Holy Communion. (Not personal, dekeguy)

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

Being a Mason as a Roman Catholic is being in a state of sin and one should not receive Holy Communion. (Not personal, dekeguy)

Yeah, nothing personal. Hope that you enjoy the brimstone.

just kidding, with both of you

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

I had this long typed up thing, but basically this : http://www.ewtn.com/expert/answers/freemasonry.htm
Approved by the Pope, issued by Ratzinger. I found no documentation of JPII saying anything else unless you include those world conspiracy sites that say the Pope IS a Mason which strikes me as just a wee little bit unlikely. So I don't believe that there were comments by JPII to contradict Ratzinger's (again, papally approved) document. And that document was only clarification that the same rules still apply.

Being a Mason as a Roman Catholic is being in a state of sin and one should not receive Holy Communion. (Not personal, dekeguy)

=============================

My concerns stem from the date of Cardinal Ratzinger's (as he was then known) document (1983) and my conversation with the late Cardinal Basil Hume in the mid-1990s. I fully support the Church's position that a Catholic should not join in anti-religious or athestic groups who work against belief in God. I am a convinced Roman Catholic, I am also a Jesuit educated Roman Catholic and the Jesuits constantly posed the rhetorical question "when God gave you a brain, do you suppose He had in mind that you do something with it"? When faced with a complicated question we were taught to think it through to its conclusion. It seems to me that guidance, received years after the date of the document in question, from a brilliant, superbly educated, and deeply devout Cardinal Archbishop who was a close personal friend of our late Pope John Paul II, would speak to me with very considerable authority. I think that perhaps there is something of a comparison of apples and oranges involved here. My understanding is that the Pope was, and rightly so, dead set against involvement with irregular (outlaw, for want of a better word) so-called masonic organizations. My understanding is that regular Masons, which include all those recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England and Wales, do not fit the definition of those prohibited groups. Regular Masons are in complete agreement with the Church's objections against these athestic and/or antireligeous groups and likewise forbid communication with any of these irregular bodies on pain of expulsion from regular Masonry.
Any other Masons, Catholics, and/or Catholic Masons have any thoughts or helpful comments?

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

=============================

My concerns stem from the date of Cardinal Ratzinger's (as he was then known) document (1983) and my conversation with the late Cardinal Basil Hume in the mid-1990s. I fully support the Church's position that a Catholic should not join in anti-religious or athestic groups who work against belief in God. I am a convinced Roman Catholic, I am also a Jesuit educated Roman Catholic and the Jesuits constantly posed the rhetorical question "when God gave you a brain, do you suppose He had in mind that you do something with it"? When faced with a complicated question we were taught to think it through to its conclusion. It seems to me that guidance, received years after the date of the document in question, from a brilliant, superbly educated, and deeply devout Cardinal Archbishop who was a close personal friend of our late Pope John Paul II, would speak to me with very considerable authority. I think that perhaps there is something of a comparison of apples and oranges involved here. My understanding is that the Pope was, and rightly so, dead set against involvement with irregular (outlaw, for want of a better word) so-called masonic organizations. My understanding is that regular Masons, which include all those recognized by the United Grand Lodge of England and Wales, do not fit the definition of those prohibited groups. Regular Masons are in complete agreement with the Church's objections against these athestic and/or antireligeous groups and likewise forbid communication with any of these irregular bodies on pain of expulsion from regular Masonry.
Any other Masons, Catholics, and/or Catholic Masons have any thoughts or helpful comments?

The problem with that is, you have no proof of such statements. There has been no revoking of the rules and even a casual statement by JPII would need to be made official for that occur.

I had a Jesuit Catholic university experience and I do love them for their love of learning. You understanding appears to be based on hearsay because I can find no documentation of any change on the doctrine. It is not atheism that is at issue with the Church, the Church considers the theology propagated by Masonry to be incompatible with that of the church. (Got any issues with that statement, take it up with them, not me, I'm not really an expert at anything but googling)

It's still an excommunicable offense.