Bad teachers or the system

[ASUADPi]

Am I the first teacher to reply?

NCLB- I personally find NCLB a crock of crap. It's all great in theory to "leave no child behind" the problem is there is absolutely no funding behind it. How can I possibly not leave a child behind when it is just me in a class of 21 first graders. I have 2-3 speds (1 is about to be tested that is why I say three). I have about 7 ELL's. I have 8 kids who are low-low. I have 9 or so below or at grade level and only 8 above grade level. I'm by myself. I can honestly only do so much. The only time my kids get any one on one time with me is when I have to progress moniter them on DIBELS (ORF-oral reading fluency). It's so sad. Then the sped kids. According to NCLB ALL kids must be at grade level. That is a retarded thing to want considering there is a population of students in our country who have IEP's (individualized education plans) and they will NEVER be on grade level. To hold that expectation of them and the teacher is insane! One of my sped kids will NEVER be on grade level. He doesn't retain the knowledge. He can barely sing his alphabet. He is at a pre-primer level (that is below kindergarten and I teach 1st).

Funding- Well I just happen to live in the state that is number 50 when it comes to teacher pay and funding. Enough said. I can't do much when the state doesn't spend what it should on kids. As a teacher I get $50 at the beginning of the school year to buy supplies. 50 dollars, that doesn't buy jack. I've probably spent more than 2 grand of my own money in the last 3 years of teaching. That is the only way to get the supplies for my kids that they need. 99% of the stuff in my room, I've bought from my own money. Which sucks because I get paid pretty damn crappy in the first place.

Pay- The notion that my eduction isn't as much as others is dumb. To keep our certificate a teacher has to do professional development hours. These are graduate level courses in the education field. These courses have to be approved by the district a teacher works at for professional development so that you can move up on the pay scale. While I did start out making 40K this year my raise is .05% which is down right pathetic. The only way I make more money is to get more and more education. But the increase in pay will be NOTHING compared to the money I will be spending on my education. Yes, I'm going to persue my education because I want to, but teachers shouldn't have to keep paying for graduate education so that they can get more money. Why is it that I'm supposedly teaching the "future of America". You know those future basketball, football, baseball players, yet I can barely make enough to live on my own? What is that about?

Support: I do have some great parents this year but administrative support could be better. My school is a school that hasn't made AYP for the last two years. We are in warning that the state might take us over. My principal and assistant principal try their hardest but they walked into a school that has problems. There are teachers who are more interested in causing dissention and non-cohesiveness. The middle schoolers have absolutely no discipline and will not hesistate to cuss out any teacher that comes within their path and they are told to do something they don't want to do. The kids suffer absolutely no consequences for their wretched behavior. The district is totally pacifist with how they treat the kids. The parents pretty much "own" the district. If a parent doesn't like what an administrator has told them they can walk right into district office and file a COMPLAINT!! I can't even do that as a teacher! These parents have more power than me! I don't want to sound like a bitch, but who has the education? Who is here to teach your child? If it wasn't for me, there wouldn't be a teacher in this room. The same goes for other teachers.
Now its not to say that this is a statewide problem it probably isn't. But I'm sure other teachers and other districts in my state are suffering from the same issues.

Don't get me wrong there are definately bad teachers. Hell I work with a bad teacher in my grade level and there are at least 4 more in my school alone. The problem is these people have been teaching forever and the district, up until this year, would have to go through tons of hoops to get rid of a teacher. The superintendent just made it easier for principals, this year, to fire teachers that aren't doing their jobs or bringing morale down at the schools. We shouldn't keep teachers for the sake of keeping teachers.

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Am I the first teacher to reply?
.

Nope. I'm a teacher.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Nope. I'm a teacher.

hey, you're from rome right, have you ever eaten at Harvest Moon? My sister doesn't shut up about it.

[UGAalum94]

No, that's not me who is in Rome. I'm in the Atlanta suburbs a lot closer in than that. I think you may be thinking of Carnation, but I'm not 100% sure if she is in Rome.

[Educatingblue]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Am I the first teacher to reply?

No, I am a teacher as well

[BlueReign]

Originally Posted by ASUADPi

Am I the first teacher to reply?

NCLB- I personally find NCLB a crock of crap. It's all great in theory to "leave no child behind" the problem is there is absolutely no funding behind it. How can I possibly not leave a child behind when it is just me in a class of 21 first graders. I have 2-3 speds (1 is about to be tested that is why I say three). I have about 7 ELL's. I have 8 kids who are low-low. I have 9 or so below or at grade level and only 8 above grade level. I'm by myself. I can honestly only do so much. The only time my kids get any one on one time with me is when I have to progress moniter them on DIBELS (ORF-oral reading fluency). It's so sad. Then the sped kids. According to NCLB ALL kids must be at grade level. That is a retarded thing to want considering there is a population of students in our country who have IEP's (individualized education plans) and they will NEVER be on grade level. To hold that expectation of them and the teacher is insane! One of my sped kids will NEVER be on grade level. He doesn't retain the knowledge. He can barely sing his alphabet. He is at a pre-primer level (that is below kindergarten and I teach 1st).

Funding- Well I just happen to live in the state that is number 50 when it comes to teacher pay and funding. Enough said. I can't do much when the state doesn't spend what it should on kids. As a teacher I get $50 at the beginning of the school year to buy supplies. 50 dollars, that doesn't buy jack. I've probably spent more than 2 grand of my own money in the last 3 years of teaching. That is the only way to get the supplies for my kids that they need. 99% of the stuff in my room, I've bought from my own money. Which sucks because I get paid pretty damn crappy in the first place.

Pay- The notion that my eduction isn't as much as others is dumb. To keep our certificate a teacher has to do professional development hours. These are graduate level courses in the education field. These courses have to be approved by the district a teacher works at for professional development so that you can move up on the pay scale. While I did start out making 40K this year my raise is .05% which is down right pathetic. The only way I make more money is to get more and more education. But the increase in pay will be NOTHING compared to the money I will be spending on my education. Yes, I'm going to persue my education because I want to, but teachers shouldn't have to keep paying for graduate education so that they can get more money. Why is it that I'm supposedly teaching the "future of America". You know those future basketball, football, baseball players, yet I can barely make enough to live on my own? What is that about?

Support: I do have some great parents this year but administrative support could be better. My school is a school that hasn't made AYP for the last two years. We are in warning that the state might take us over. My principal and assistant principal try their hardest but they walked into a school that has problems. There are teachers who are more interested in causing dissention and non-cohesiveness. The middle schoolers have absolutely no discipline and will not hesistate to cuss out any teacher that comes within their path and they are told to do something they don't want to do. The kids suffer absolutely no consequences for their wretched behavior. The district is totally pacifist with how they treat the kids. The parents pretty much "own" the district. If a parent doesn't like what an administrator has told them they can walk right into district office and file a COMPLAINT!! I can't even do that as a teacher! These parents have more power than me! I don't want to sound like a bitch, but who has the education? Who is here to teach your child? If it wasn't for me, there wouldn't be a teacher in this room. The same goes for other teachers.
Now its not to say that this is a statewide problem it probably isn't. But I'm sure other teachers and other districts in my state are suffering from the same issues.

Don't get me wrong there are definately bad teachers. Hell I work with a bad teacher in my grade level and there are at least 4 more in my school alone. The problem is these people have been teaching forever and the district, up until this year, would have to go through tons of hoops to get rid of a teacher. The superintendent just made it easier for principals, this year, to fire teachers that aren't doing their jobs or bringing morale down at the schools. We shouldn't keep teachers for the sake of keeping teachers.

For a minute I thought you and I were in the same school but then I see that you're in Phoenix. Things are the same all over! For me, I say forget parental support, cause some parents need some support themselves. Just because they had babies doesn't mean they know how to properly parent. What I would like is administrator support. I'm so sick of the teacher-bashing. Just like you said above that there are bad teachers, there are bad administrators. I'm tired of hearing the same tired old speeches regarding NCLB and not making AYP (adequate yearly progress). I just say let the state take over then. That is not a threat nor does it scare me. We as teachers can only do so much in a day and not too many people want my job anyway -- that's why we have all these shortages. If administrators and the public too were more supportive of teachers, we could keep the good ones who want to do their jobs regardless of the hoops and hurdles to become certified, highly qualified, and whatever the hell else they want us to do.

I am on a mission now to start programs on parenting and the education process. A lot has changed since we and our parents were in school and people need to know so much more on how to assist their children. A lot of parents are ignorant as to how to help. As a special educator, I would like to assist parents in what special education means in regards to their child and their disabilities, going to high school, receiving a diploma vs. a certificate, etc.

[AGDee]

Regarding the intelligence of teachers... I think most of us have experienced college professors who were so brilliant that it hindered their ability to teach. They simply didn't comprehend that others didn't have the background or ability to understand some abstract concepts or they couldn't explain things in any way other than the one that they understood. I certainly work with some statisticians who are this way. They are so far into another universe intellectually that they can't relate to others. There's got to be a balance of empathy, intelligence and nurturing.

[SWTXBelle]

I may have an interesting perspective. I taught college for 12 years, and then AP English at a private school for 7. I currently homeschool my 17 year old and am on the board of a private school. When I graduated with a B.A. in English, I had twice as many English courses as someone who graduated with his/her education certificate. I never planned to teach, but God had other plans . . . and when I looked into 1.) going to graduate school to get my M.A. and education certificate or 2.) getting a M.A. in English and teaching college - it would have taken twice as long to be certified to teach, and the courses included a 3 hour course in making bulletin boards. No lie. I worked at a public high school whilst in graduate school, which made it easy to chose.
I was fortunate to work at a private school where the headmaster believed in hiring the best possible teachers and LETTING THEM TEACH. I was able to be creative and adjust my plans to suit individual students and classes. Many people are surprised to learn that private school teachers get paid LESS than public school teachers. But my sanity is worth something. As for measures of success - I have a file of Thank You letters from students who went on to be successful students at Yale, Harvard, U of Chicago, Westpoint, Stanford, . . .just about any top school you can name. My Scholastic Writing Award participants have won national Gold and Silver awards. Our school academic team was the state champion for the three years I coached it. We had an exceptional number of National Merit scholars and award winners. You get the picture. The biggest measure of success of course is students re-enrolling. If the parents don't think it is worth the money, they will not support a private school.
My sister-in-law works at a public school in Texas. She has to spend so much time prepping for tests in the spring that she sometimes doesn't get to teach science. Think about that for a minute.
I homeschool my daughter because I know that it is impossible for a teacher with over 20 students in a class to meet all their needs. I knew I couldn't when I was teaching college. If I pitched my class to the top 10%, I'd lose the other 90%. If I gave the bottom 10% what they needed, everyone else would be bored to death. And if I pitched to the middle, I'd lose the bottom and the top. In college it is possible to ignore the bottom 10 - 25% - they are ill-equipped for higher education, and will drop. Because I taught English, I was able to let the top 10% distinguish themselves with their writing. Some of the middle students were stunned to discover that they would not get a B for breathing. Many received their first Cs and Ds from me. I'd point out that C is average - so the majority of my students should, in theory, receive a C. I graded each paper on its individual merits, so it was possible there would be more Bs or Ds than Cs. Many of these students -who couldn't even write a grammatically correct sentence - had been receiving passing grades in high school.
But a teacher in a public school does not have the luxury of ignoring the students who need him/her most. I do not envy them the administrative hoops they have to jump through, the burdens placed on them by the educational theory du jour, and the often antagonistic attitude parents display. Read Teachers Have It Easy: The Big Sacrifices and Small Salaries of America's Teachers a really good, through assesment of the problems, and an exploration of some possible solutions, associated with public education today.
My daughter has been tested with the Stanford Achievement Tests every year until this year - she's a junior, and she took the ACT today. She has consistently been in the 95 - 98 percentile. She is a solid writer, and has read an amazing amount of literature. Because she has been able to work at her own pace, she has really finished a standard high school curriculum already. She did not want to go to college as a 17 year old, so we will spend the next year doing college-level work and visiting colleges.
I am not alone - literally thousands of parents are opting out of a system that is unable, or unwilling, to change. I could go on, but instead recommend An Underground History of American Education to anyone who wants to know how we ended up in this mess. I wish I knew the magic wand to wave and make it better. I don't, but I do believe the first thing we must do is admit what we are doing now IS NOT WORKING.

[KSig RC]

You're right - that is an interesting perspective. I think more teachers should put in the effort and thought you did - I'm sure some don't have the opportunity, but I think you're probably better at what you do than many, as well.

One thing:

Originally Posted by SWTXBelle

My sister-in-law works at a public school in Texas. She has to spend so much time prepping for tests in the spring that she sometimes doesn't get to teach science. Think about that for a minute.

This concept baffles me - the point of testing is to see where students stand in terms of learning. Preparing for the test should be the same thing as teaching them - in an ideal world, the test could be given at any given point and test information up to that point. I just don't get how this happens - that's not at all the intention behind any concept of testing.

Charges of "teaching to the test" are inane and generally incorrect - what requires this much time?

[SWTXBelle]

Well, having been in TX when the original NCLB system was implemented, I have to say it invited abuse. Teachers were assured that testing would not be considered in hiring/firing/advances - but then it was. Widespread cheating was found - and what amazed me was not that they found it, but that they did not find more. Principals felt pressure to deliver test results, and they passed on the pressure to the teachers. They say they don't teach to the test - but then have pep rallies and reward systems geared specifically to the test. You pass by schools - and their signs are all about the testing, they have banners painted and posted on their fences, and the entire school is held hostage to the test for the weeks before and during the testing itself. You cannot have a system of punishments (and that's how they are perceived) for schools with poor performance and then be surprised when there is cheating and teaching to the test.
Accountability is good - but education is far too complex to be reduced to fill-in-the-circle kind of tests. Maybe the problem is that the test is too generalized - in other words, that it is expected to be a one-size-fits-all.
My husband is headmaster at a 2 yr. old private school. We test the kids every year with the Stanford Achievement Test - but specifically to be able to gauge progress against a norm, and to fine-tune the next year's curriculum to address any perceived shortcomings. The class results aren't what we are looking for - it's the individual student's results that we use. And - FYI - 2/3 of our students are ESL, and in the 2 years we've had them, they've made incredible progress. I was brought to tears when discussing the results with a mother.(I oversee administration of the tests) Her son had been held back in public school, and you could tell he had adopted a strategy of just "tuning out" when he didn't understand something. You can't do that when you are in a class of 2 students! He has made enormous strides forward, because he doesn't have an option to tune out any more.
There has got to be a way to hold students, teachers, and schools accountable - but I don't think NCLB is the answer.

[AchtungBaby80]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Charges of "teaching to the test" are inane and generally incorrect - what requires this much time?

That's not what I've seen. In all the schools I subbed in and especially the ones where I student taught, there was a lot of "teaching to the test" going on...and the worst one was a school with extremely high schores (of the top-ten-in-the-state variety). I guess that tactic worked, but the teachers weren't very happy about it.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by AchtungBaby80

That's not what I've seen. In all the schools I subbed in and especially the ones where I student taught, there was a lot of "teaching to the test" going on...and the worst one was a school with extremely high schores (of the top-ten-in-the-state variety). I guess that tactic worked, but the teachers weren't very happy about it.

What does "teaching to the test" even mean?

I'm asking in earnest - I don't know how you can 'teach to the test' for something like history or math. Even in English classes, where these charges pop up most, the rhetorical devices and vocabulary that are the root of these charges are fantastic writing skills on their own right.

How can "teaching to the test" be different from "learning"?

[UGAalum94]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

Charges of "teaching to the test" are inane and generally incorrect - what requires this much time?

If the tests are good, I agree with you.

When you have a valid curriculum test carefully aligned with what teachers are supposed to teaching and appropriate for the methods they are supposed to be using, the test at the end should measure student learning and shouldn't need a bunch of crammed in test specific teaching.

But oftentimes, the curriculum and methods that teachers have been taught and required to use do not match up with what will be tested, and so, they are directed as a separate exercise to review or cram certain information in before the test.

I'm not to the SWTX Belle level that the whole system should be thrown out, at least I'm not today, but I think the present system needs huge reform.

As much as I take the teachers' "side" 95% of the time, I think good tests are essential to reform, and the "testing isn't really education" stuff is part of what is holding progress back. What you do with kids everyday for 180 days should somehow be measurable. It's certainly measurable in the tax dollars spent on it. The tests we have now may be a part of the problems, but GOOD tests are probably part of the answer.