Racial Conflict

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Guys, it doesn't make that much sense to say as a reason that you haven't even had the possibililty of pledging a black guy that "none come through rush," and then turn around a say, "we get our whole pledge class before rush even starts." If that's the case, you all could rush some black guys. Their not going through rush isn't a factor if you all do as many private rush parties as you claim. You say, "well no black guys came to the parties." Right. Did you invited any? That might be the problem.

Would you please shut up......seriously.....this is getting ridiculous. WE DON"T HAVE TO RUSH A DAMN BLACK GUY IF WE DON'T WANT TO. It's as simple as that. If you despise the fact that we recruit from specific areas with specific guys in mind......tough .....that is how it is. Why are you trying to make this sound like we have to do this, and have to do that?.....we don't have to do anything. We have every right in the world to keep our fraternity highly selective, rush guys from the same areas we always do, and do things the way we want it. I'm not going to openly search different cities and comb through rush to find a black guy that may have a few things in common with us when there are tons of other guys that we KNOW exhibit the qualities that we want. It doesn't make any sense to do that........and i'm especially not going to do it when I can count the number of black guys that go through IFC rush on one hand. I don't know about other campuses...but I think its safe to say that down here......black guys that want to join a fraternity are perfectly content with pledging a BGLO.

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

If in 2006, you don't know any black people who seem similar to you, that's probably not totally an accident. It's probably a reflection of your attitude about race. Own up to it. Quit pretending that it's only circumstance, not intent that explains it.

Find me a black man at the University of Texas, or anywhere for that matter, that likes to play golf, listen to Grateful Dead and the Allmans, duck hunt, fly fish, talk politics, go to Widespread Panic concerts, drink 25 year old scotch neat, and spend time at a country club drinking brandy and smoking cigars.......and maybe i'll take your thoughts into consideration. I haven't seen it......and I know/meet/see/am around black people on a daily basis. Don't sit here and feed us some bs about how not finding black people that are similar to us is a reflection on our attitudes concerning race.

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Yep, I do know how things go down at big southern schools, and that is why I'm not buying your load of crap. It's not an accident that the system is the way it is. You are partially responsible for the way it is. You have some ability to bring about a positive change and you elect not to,

So what do you think about Black oganizations that are......gasp........ALL BLACK? Maybe I should go bitch and moan to them about how they should diversify before they rock the very foundations of civilization as we know it.

Why do you keep saying things about "bringing about positive changes"?? THERE ISN'T ANYTHING WRONG!!!!!!!!! Our chapter is doing great, what's there to change? I feel like i'm having a discussion with a brick wall.

[shinerbock]

Would you prefer we go through the phone list and look for minority-sounding names and be sure to call them? Holy crap. This is why I hate this school...

As for Pike at FSU, I'm sure they're the lovechild of Pike nationals. I'm also sure there is some TKE chapter up north who thinks they're better than any southern chapter. I really don't care. I like our chapters. I'd rather be in a second tier southern chapter (and by south, I don't mean FSU), than in the best fraternity on campus at Michigan. Its just different here, and thankfully you people havent figured that out yet. You're right, if I just wanted to randomly select 150 guys without any concern for quality, I'd be all about PKA at FSU. Thankfully, in the south, we're interested in more than just being a microcosm of society. You guys don't have to like it. To be honest, you probably wouldnt even like us. I imagine many on this board would be turned off by things like collared shirts and un-gelled hair...we also like beer and bourbon here, I know, ridiculous...where's the grapefruit and stoli...not here, friends.

Side Note, to the FSU person, no offense, me and you seem to agree on some things, which is promising.

[UGAalum94]

Guys,

Of course you guys can pick anyone you want to give membership to. Of course you guys use your own standards for what you are looking for in members.
It is probably true that the majority of Black students at your campuses don't fit the mold you describe.

I'm realizing more and more that you are right that if your attitudes in real life come across as clearly as they do here that the top notch Black guys by your own standards probably don't want to join your groups.

My point remains though that your policies end up being racist. That bothers me, and I'd want to change it. Of course it may not bother you.

I think to really integrate the NPC/IFC system, the top tiers need to buy in. It seems like a great opportunity to take a clearly correct, moral action.

When you look back on the stuggle to integrate the southern universities we're talking about, do you find yourself sympathizing with the George Wallaces, Lester Maddoxs, Orval Faubus? Because it seems to me that that is the historic side your on. Sure they were faced with a lot of people who wanted integration, and you would have to do it yourself based on the idea that it was the morally right thing to do.

It also probably doesn't seem as important to anyone else that you exclude Blacks, but it should seem, I think, important to everyone who participates in a segregated system.

I can't make you do anything. I know that, but it seems to me based on what little I know about fraternities, that the idea isn't only to have a social club for a certain kind of guy. It's to assemble the absolute best guys for the strength of the group so that they can have a social club AND carry out the ideals of the group. In many cases, it seems that the goals of the group involve leadership and service in the outside community.

When a group or a system conducts itself in such a way that it looks bad to the outside world, it weakens its influence outside the group or system.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by Alphagamuga

Guys,

Of course you guys can pick anyone you want to give membership to. Of course you guys use your own standards for what you are looking for in members.
It is probably true that the majority of Black students at your campuses don't fit the mold you describe.

I'm realizing more and more that you are right that if your attitudes in real life come across as clearly as they do here that the top notch Black guys by your own standards probably don't want to join your groups.

My point remains though that your policies end up being racist. That bothers me, and I'd want to change it. Of course it may not bother you.

I think to really integrate the NPC/IFC system, the top tiers need to buy in. It seems like a great opportunity to take a clearly correct, moral action.

When you look back on the stuggle to integrate the southern universities we're talking about, do you find yourself sympathizing with the George Wallaces, Lester Maddoxs, Orval Faubus? Because it seems to me that that is the historic side your on. Sure they were faced with a lot of people who wanted integration, and you would have to do it yourself based on the idea that it was the morally right thing to do.

It also probably doesn't seem as important to anyone else that you exclude Blacks, but it should seem, I think, important to everyone who participates in a segregated system.

I can't make you do anything. I know that, but it seems to me based on what little I know about fraternities, that the idea isn't only to have a social club for a certain kind of guy. It's to assemble the absolute best guys for the strength of the group so that they can have a social club AND carry out the ideals of the group. In many cases, it seems that the goals of the group involve leadership and service in the outside community.

When a group or a system conducts itself in such a way that it looks bad to the outside world, it weakens it's influence outside the group or system.

I don't see any BGLOs with white members........so let's say they are racist too.....just to make things fair.

We aren't racist......at all.
Racism: 1. a belief or doctrine that inherent differences among the various human races determine cultural or individual achievement, usually involving the idea that one's own race is superior and has the right to rule others.
Racism: 3. hatred or intolerance of another race or other races.

Last time I checked, we didn't hate anyone, nor did we exclude blacks because we think we are superior to them. I think you need to understand the magnitude of that word before you call us or our practices racist.....again.

Look......from what I have seen, black guys down here are very content with being in their own fraternities and associating with other black guys. What is so wrong with that? The amount of black people that exress an interest in joining an IFC fraternity is borderline 0.

[UGAalum94]

I think a double standard does exists for NPHC groups and NPC/IFC groups. While I'm not usually a fan of double standards, when one group of organizations has race at the center of its mission and another group of organizations doesn't, it seems like pretending that the racial policies of the groups should be the same is a little silly.

If you want to continue saying that having a policy that basically says, " we only take people exactly like us, and we happen to be White" doesn't suggest that you think White people are better than other groups, I've got nothing else to say.

[macallan25]

We don't have a "racial policy". Thanks. Don't be an idiot. I never said anything about a policy. Stop putting words in my mouth.

You are right, race isn't a central mission of our fraternity or chapter.....making our chapter the best we possibly can is, however. It is our job to do that. We take people who are a good, solid fits for our chapter that share common interests and ideals. I never said, nor do I think, that white people are better than other groups. We are not going to actively pursue a group of people that show no interest in joining our fraternity for the sake of diversifying our house.....that is moronic and not the least bit conducive to our chapter. I don't care if they are black, white, green, yellow.....whatever......its not going to happen. If you abhor the fact that many Southern chapters have only white people so much.....then go join the NAACP and preach to someone of a higher power. I'm sure Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton would love you. Until then......quit with your never ending rant......while you are behind.