Active Military members speaking out against Iraq war.

[teena]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

Couple of thoughts here:
Body armor is not a cure-all to the dangers of combat. Training, alertness, agility, and concentration are far more valuable. Body armor is a nice to have extra under some circumstances, it is not a crucial requirement. If you have done a tour in-country you know what I mean. If not, ask some soldiers who have. They will tell you that training and alertness to surroundings beat hell out of all the heavy gear that protects part but not all of you.

I was wondering about that. I was thinking that they must have made some type of changes to the Flak(sp) vest that I didnt know about that had people in uproar.

[dekeguy]

Originally Posted by teena

I was wondering about that. I was thinking that they must have made some type of changes to the Flak(sp) vest that I didnt know about that had people in uproar.

From what I hear from the guys coming back most recently they say that there have been some good improvements to flak vests, but that still leaves your arms, legs, gut, and butt, not to mention your head (helmets do a good job but don't cover everything) pretty much hanging out in the breeze.
I gather you have been there? Did you find the same or similar reactions to improvised armor being more dangerous than it was worth and flak vests being very useful sometimes, but not all the time?
The thing that amazes me is that so many people can't quite grasp that war is loud, dirty, dangerous, and not really much fun. There are no easy fixes and no cure-alls. In my outfit we pushed training, training, and more training. I inspected gear again and again to make sure it was in good working order and not liable to malfunction when you needed it. I'm sure my guys thought I was a real pain in the butt about all that, but I got them all home alive. We got quite a few "scratches" but no KIAs. I firmly believe that good and continuing training and maintenance of your gear really load the odds up in your favor.
I never wanted to write a NOK notification letter and, thank God, I never had to. Please God, that I never will have to.

[teena]

Originally Posted by dekeguy

From what I hear from the guys coming back most recently they say that there have been some good improvements to flak vests, but that still leaves your arms, legs, gut, and butt, not to mention your head (helmets do a good job but don't cover everything) pretty much hanging out in the breeze.
I gather you have been there?

Naw.

Originally Posted by dekeguy

The thing that amazes me is that so many people can't quite grasp that war is loud, dirty, dangerous, and not really much fun. There are no easy fixes and no cure-alls. In my outfit we pushed training, training, and more training. I inspected gear again and again to make sure it was in good working order and not liable to malfunction when you needed it. I'm sure my guys thought I was a real pain in the butt about all that, but I got them all home alive. We got quite a few "scratches" but no KIAs. I firmly believe that good and continuing training and maintenance of your gear really load the odds up in your favor.
I never wanted to write a NOK notification letter and, thank God, I never had to. Please God, that I never will have to.

I think that, generally, Americans will go along with a war-as long as it over quickly and there will be some tangible benefit to us. But the number of casualties, the monetay cost AND we arent getting much out of the deal- is wearing on the American public.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by teena

Naw.
I think that, generally, Americans will go along with a war-as long as it over quickly and there will be some tangible benefit to us. But the number of casualties, the monetay cost AND we arent getting much out of the deal- is wearing on the American public.

You have to remember Iraq is a different type of war, this war was one man's personal grudge it wasn't necessary....in the context of the so called war on terrorism. Also the military is now shipping in some new armour vehicles into Iraq (name coyotes & other name I can't remember.) this is directly related to troops speaking up against the lack of under plating on the current vehicles.

[06pilot]

For most combat troops in the war, its not about politics or the President or anything. Its about survival. Plain and simple. I just returned from Iraq in May and I can tell you we go out on a mission and our only goal in life is comming back with all our people with all our limbs. Thats it. What you guys se on TV and debate about we arent thinking about. Troopss that stay in the rear at the base, well , they dont really understand either. Life for them is totally different than for a combat Troop.

[AXEAM]

Originally Posted by 06pilot

For most combat troops in the war, its not about politics or the President or anything. Its about survival. Plain and simple. I just returned from Iraq in May and I can tell you we go out on a mission and our only goal in life is comming back with all our people with all our limbs. Thats it. What you guys se on TV and debate about we arent thinking about. Troopss that stay in the rear at the base, well , they dont really understand either. Life for them is totally different than for a combat Troop.

Some troops may feel the way you stated, however in talking to active duty military members many do blame Bush and his silly puffed up Cowboy ways for the Iraq mess.

[shinerbock]

Originally Posted by AXEAM

Some troops may feel the way you stated, however in talking to active duty military members many do blame Bush and his silly puffed up Cowboy ways for the Iraq mess.

And many don't, at all.

[06pilot]

Originally Posted by AXEAM

Some troops may feel the way you stated, however in talking to active duty military members many do blame Bush and his silly puffed up Cowboy ways for the Iraq mess.

Oh, no doubt I agree with you. And also from what I find, it lik emany things in our society breaks down by racial lines. Most black soldiers, who by the way perform support roles in the army do lame Bush. Most white soldiers, who by the way are combat troops support what we are doing in Iraqw.

I didnt make it that way so dont bash me. It is what it is. I said most not all.