Your thoughts on AI: discussion goes here.

[GDIfly]

I understand that the specifics of membership selection are private; that is not the issue. Nearly all of these "con" people are saying that AI should not be sought, but all of the sororities who are AIing women who seek them clearly are not opposed to the practice. If they were, then they wouldn't be initiating these women.
Bottom line is that these members who say that AI shouldn't be sought aren't the ones who make that decision, the leaders of the organization make that decision and these women shouldn't be trying to change their groups' existing policies.

[epchick]

Originally Posted by GDIfly

I understand that the specifics of membership selection are private; that is not the issue. Nearly all of these "con" people are saying that AI should not be sought, but all of the sororities who are AIing women who seek them clearly are not opposed to the practice. If they were, then they wouldn't be initiating these women.
Bottom line is that these members who say that AI shouldn't be sought aren't the ones who make that decision, the leaders of the organization make that decision and these women shouldn't be trying to change their groups' existing policies.

That's right...they may not have a way to change their organizations policy...but they at least have a right to want to change GREEKCHAT'S policy on allowing an Alumnae Initiation forum.

[GDIfly]

...
But their reason for wanting to change Greekchat's policy is their idea that AI should never be sought. About which (most of) their organizations obviously disagree with them.

[Tippiechick]

Originally Posted by GDIfly

...
But their reason for wanting to change Greekchat's policy is their idea that AI should never be sought. About which (most of) their organizations obviously disagree with them.

I haven't seen one person who was/is completely against AI. I don't think there's anyone who seriously thinks that AI should never be used. But, you are right in that a lot don't think that people should sorority shop. I would say that you are wrong about the headquarters disagreeing. I think the fact that AI information is very scarce now on most sites is evidence that they are wanting to stop the sorority shoppers.

Originally Posted by GDIfly

Bottom line is that these members who say that AI shouldn't be sought aren't the ones who make that decision, the leaders of the organization make that decision and these women shouldn't be trying to change their groups' existing policies.

I wouldn't be so quick to assume that.

While our organizations do have leaders, much of our policies are debated and decided on by collegiate/alumnae voting members of the Fraternity.

I've heard of business meetings at Conventions (both my org and other orgs) where the debates have gotten so heated because some of the topics are so sensitive -- membership's usually a sensitive issue to many people. I know of several GCers here who sat through recent Conventions when the AI issue was brought up for discussion.

So, while the current policy regarding AI stands, if members strongly feel that it needs to be amended, they can can initiate a push to bring this up to the Fraternity for review.

[GDIfly]

Originally Posted by OTW

So, while the current policy regarding AI stands, if members strongly feel that it needs to be amended, they can can initiate a push to bring this up to the Fraternity for review.

Touche.
But then shouldn't they wait for these changes to go through officially before going around and preaching them? Isn't that the way this would work with any other policy change?

Originally Posted by GDIfly

Touche.
But then shouldn't they wait for these changes to go through officially before going around and preaching them? Isn't that the way this would work with any other policy change?

I don't see why they should wait.

Again, if they feel strongly about it then they should be allowed to voice their concerns all they want and possibly gain more support at the same time.

I've only been in my organization for a few short years, but in my conversations with longtime members of the Fraternity, membership policies (that I obviously won't go into here) have evolved over time, and not all things are set in stone.

If members feel the need for change (and this is not limited to AI), it certainly isn't impossible.

[texas*princess]

GDIfly - Not every single NPC sorority has the same policy on AI. Some sororities will let sorority shoppers know that AI does not work for them unless they are the one to approach the woman. Some won't let them know and just won't return the calls.

Some sororities don't mind that women call on them. Sometimes it depends on the alum. chapter. Once again, all of their own information on why they may or may not initiate a person is theirs and theirs alone.

The stories on GC are not representative of the rest of the other however-many million women there are in the US. Just because you have 20 (or whatever the number is) women here who became initated via AI, does not mean it's a common thing.

Many feel that GC has created a marketplace for AI. And that is not how the programs were intended.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by texas*princess

GDIfly - Not every single NPC sorority has the same policy on AI. Some sororities will let sorority shoppers know that AI does not work for them unless they are the one to approach the woman. Some won't let them know and just won't return the calls.

Some sororities don't mind that women call on them. Sometimes it depends on the alum. chapter. Once again, all of their own information on why they may or may not initiate a person is theirs and theirs alone.

The stories on GC are not representative of the rest of the other however-many million women there are in the US. Just because you have 20 (or whatever the number is) women here who became initated via AI, does not mean it's a common thing.

Many feel that GC has created a marketplace for AI. And that is not how the programs were intended.

Don't forget to add that some meet women on the internet and get help/sponsored that way so they can shop, but it will end up looking like the PNAM was sought after by a member.

GDIfly.... just because we are members of organizations, it doesn't mean we don't have our own opinions. Maybe some of these orgs are ok with "shopping", and the members don't like it. There are business meetings at conventions for a reason.

[PreppyTriDelta]

To be honest, I am quite upset about those who sorority shop, especially those who wind up receiving invitations somewhere after pledging love for A, then B, then C, then D and finally E. As for the comparisons to rush, it is utterly ridiculous. They are two different animals and should be treated as such.

However, I am very supportive of AI in general. We have terrific sisters who are honor initiates, and we are a better organization having them in the sisterhood. I do not know how they came to be sisters, so I cannot really make any judgments on the being invited versus being invited after seeking out debate. I am just thankful for these terrific sisters.

As for this AI forum, the word trainwreck comes to mind. I like the NPHC way of dealing with it and think it is a good resolution. If they cannot find out the information for themselves or are not invited independently, I cannot see how they have the requisite maturity to become a sister anyway.

Maybe I am just being naive to this, as I am new on this board, but this is how I see it at this particular point in time.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

GDIfly.... just because we are members of organizations, it doesn't mean we don't have our own opinions. Maybe some of these orgs are ok with "shopping", and the members don't like it. There are business meetings at conventions for a reason.

Word, word, wordy mc wordlestein word.


Also, there seems to be a fairly large divide between GCers who have been here for a while and newer members. All we can say to the newbies is, believe us when we say how bad some of the AI threads got and that the response of completely banning AI discussion is NOT unwarranted.

It's kind of like how jon1856 (not to pick on you, dude) thought KABillyMac was trying to stir up things when he sarcastically said we should all call each other names or something. Those of us who have been here for a long time KNOW KABM's heart is pure (tee hee) and he wasn't trying to do any such thing - he was just being goofy. Jon doesn't know KABM from a hole in the ground cause he's fairly new, so he didn't know any better.

If you don't believe me, search on all the posts of some of the people who have voted "con" for the AI forum - and see what their opinions and posts were like 3 years ago.

[GDIfly]

Originally Posted by PM_Mama00

Don't forget to add that some meet women on the internet and get help/sponsored that way so they can shop, but it will end up looking like the PNAM was sought after by a member.

Wow, that is a problem I hadn't considered. It's very surprising that a sister would misrepresent to or even for any reason recommend to her sorority a woman who contacted her online about AI. Shady.

Also, thanks for your post AChiOSnap, it helped me understand your point of view quite a bit.

Originally Posted by adpiucf

I don't want an AI Forum b/c AI members are sisters and don't need to feel like they need a separate section. There isn't any such thing as a "road to AI"-- when you are offered membership, post in the appropriate NPC Forum to be welcomed as a new sister. We'll celebrate everything to come, including initiation, together.

I can't find them presently, but I recall a few posts, I believe by ariesrising and a few other Alumnae Initiates, saying that they wanted to retain a forum to discuss their 'roads to membership' after the fact and share in the common experience of initating as a non-collegian. So I think that you saying now that AI members don't need to feel in favor of a separate section is kind of disrespecting these women and their feelings on the issue.

Obviously I'm not as well apprised of the history of this forum as most of the posters here, and I know this has been suggested in this thread many times, but it REALLY seems like following the same route as the NPHC forums (immediately quashing any threads requesting help with AI) would help to maintain a place where Alumnae Initiates (who have already been given an initiation date or been initiated) can discuss their common bond, but without the recruitment/sorority shopping/indiscreet trainwreck it's been in the past. There also seem to be a lot of people in this thread who are passionate enough about AI and active/well respected enough members of the forum that they would make excellent moderators of a forum that were run in this manner.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by GDIfly

Touche.
But then shouldn't they wait for these changes to go through officially before going around and preaching them? Isn't that the way this would work with any other policy change?

You have a valid point, and it's a good question. The fact of the matter is, some GCers understand their sorority's policy on AI, and are conning the forum for reasons that they can't or may not be willing to discuss, due to the sensitive nature of sorority policy. For instance, I've been researching my own org's policies on AI -- having been totally clueless about AI before joining GC -- and I would probably have f-ing kittens if I saw someone trying to "shop" my sorority due to my understanding of how it works in AXO. It is my opinion that I shouldn't publicize AXO AI any more than nationals does (i.e. NOT AT ALL) and I believe National's silence on the issue should be respected, but we all know that this is an internet chat board and nobody has to respect my wishes in the relative anonymity of cyberspace. When it comes down to it, I can type until I'm blue in the face and it may not change anything.

Other GCers may not be conning this forum because of their National's AI policies. So to address your question, not all GCers are preaching their sorority's policy. Some may be conning it even though their Nationals is relatively open to meeting PNAMs from any situation. These women may feel that sorority shopping in AI undermines the integrity of their organization. As current members of their org, they have every right to express this opinion. I also think it's a valid argument against the existence of this forum -- after all, if GC members don't like it and are speaking out against it, then maybe John will decide it's a good idea to take it down.

But again, this is an internet chat board, and the longer this debate rages on, the less likely it seems that this forum is going anywhere. At the end of the day, all of this may be a moot point.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by AChiOhSnap

I would probably have f-ing kittens if I saw someone trying to "shop" my sorority

I agree with your whole post, but this I would pay $$ to see.

[AChiOhSnap]

Originally Posted by AlphaFrog

I agree with your whole post, but this I would pay $$ to see.

LOL! Past PNAMs have dropped some "hints" about possibly researching my org, and if this happens again, you may get the whole show for free.