PAC -10 Suspends Officials For Calls in Oklahoma Game

[Kevin]

"Equipment malfunction"? We're not talking ESPN Ocho camera angles here, we're talking ABC Prime Time. If nothing else, this should be a lesson to replay officials to look at every angle before making the call.

It's Riese's spleen the country wants.

-- if he's offering, I'll take it.

[DeltAlum]

"This is probably a good time to remind ourselves that sports isn't war. It's not life or death. College football is supposed to be a pleasant, passionate weekend diversion, void of death threats for sure. There's just something that doesn't feel right about villifying Riese, especially after further review.

The above is right on.

For whatever reason, the replay official made a bad call, upholding a bad call.

He is agonizing about it. Let it rest.

Unfortunately, there are potential huge stakes -- mostly involving BCS appearances, big money and national recognition.

But, to coin a phrase, nobody's perfect.

If the article that KSigRC linked is true, the biggest fault may be with the Pac 10 replay process itself.

I was directing NFL football when replay was first used, and we basically played EVERY replay that was even close to showing the play. If this man really only got to see one replay -- or as the article says, one frame (that's a still frame of 1/30th of a second) -- there's a huge problem with the system.

Replays are always tense for everyone -- and they're made worse by the artificial time limit imposed because of the people waiting in the stands, the TV audience and other issues. The pressure is on everyone. However, if replay is going to be used -- it has to be done right.

In this case, it obviously wasn't. That doesn't make it the replay official's fault, though.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by Kevin

"Equipment malfunction"? We're not talking ESPN Ocho camera angles here, we're talking ABC Prime Time. If nothing else, this should be a lesson to replay officials to look at every angle before making the call.

He doesn't get access to the ABC feed (which is GOOD), nor does he have (instant) access to or control over their camera angles.

This is the whole point - he was forced to make a decision based on the amount of time, by the other referees and the ABC production team, and he totally blew it. He admits this freely, and knew at the time that something was wrong, but didn't get the angles he needed (which requires him to say "can't overturn").

[macallan25]

Why would he not get access to the ABC feed or control over camera angles. That is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. One look at atleast 3 of the ABC camera angles would have made the call more than easy.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Why would he not get access to the ABC feed or control over camera angles. That is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. One look at atleast 3 of the ABC camera angles would have made the call more than easy.

To clear one thing up. NOBODY gets "Control" over TV's camera angles except the producer and director of the telecast.

If the TV crew is doing its job, though, as I said above they're going to play every replay that have that has ANY view of the play. Remember that some of the cameras may be isolated on different players -- but there are always at least one or two cameras (replays) that "follow the ball."

For the replay official not to have access to ALL of those pertinent replays is ridiculous.

ETA that when NFL replay began, a separate feed from the TV truck directly to the TV booth was added and the booth official had two VCR's of his own, with slo motion capability (and a person to operate them for him), so that he could look at the "first" replay, while the second machine was still recording the rest of the replays so he could watch the rest when he was finished with the first and nothing would be missed.

[AlphaFrog]

Since this is a football thread and all...I'm going to ask a dumb female football question...

I was watching the ASU game last weekend and they QB made a pass from the 10 yard-line and the receiver missed and the ball hit the pylon. They ruled it a touchback instead of an incomplete pass. Why is it a touchback, since it never touched the other team?? (I understand about 75% of the rules in football, but this is one I just don't get).

[SydneyK]

Isn't this the first year the replay system has been in place in the NCAA? It seems like this can serve as a good "teaching moment" for preparing officials, TV crews, replay booth operators, etc., for subsequent seasons.

Sure, it's a shame for OU, but based on the links above, it sounds like the OU President is taking this a little too far. I understand that there's a lot at stake, I really do. But seriously, remove the game's outcome from teh record books? Come on. Suspend the officials for the remainder of the season? Now you're just going too far.

There has to be indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field. The booth operator didn't have indisputable evidence since he didn't have access to all the camera angles (again, based only on what I've read). If he had overturned the call with the evidence he was given, then Oregon would be griping and the OU people would probably just be saying, "Get over it."

But, since I didn't see the game, my opinion probably doesn't count for much here. (Although, even those who did see the game evidently got to see more than the booth operator saw. So, perhaps those of us who didn't get to enjoy this game are a little more objective.)

[Kevlar281]

You know in Norman they have a saying for when an official blows a call that goes Oklahoma’s way. They like to call it “Sooner Magic.”

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Isn't this the first year the replay system has been in place in the NCAA? It seems like this can serve as a good "teaching moment" for preparing officials, TV crews, replay booth operators, etc., for subsequent seasons.

Sure, it's a shame for OU, but based on the links above, it sounds like the OU President is taking this a little too far. I understand that there's a lot at stake, I really do. But seriously, remove the game's outcome from teh record books? Come on. Suspend the officials for the remainder of the season? Now you're just going too far.

There has to be indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field. The booth operator didn't have indisputable evidence since he didn't have access to all the camera angles (again, based only on what I've read). If he had overturned the call with the evidence he was given, then Oregon would be griping and the OU people would probably just be saying, "Get over it."

But, since I didn't see the game, my opinion probably doesn't count for much here. (Although, even those who did see the game evidently got to see more than the booth operator saw. So, perhaps those of us who didn't get to enjoy this game are a little more objective.)

From what I saw on TV...there wasn't a single Orgon fan that was interviewed that didn't think the call was completely blown.

The fact that the official reviewer for the plays in the game didn't have access to all of the camera angles is horrible, inexcusable, unacceptable, etc. etc.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Isn't this the first year the replay system has been in place in the NCAA? It seems like this can serve as a good "teaching moment" for preparing officials, TV crews, replay booth operators, etc., for subsequent seasons.

I believe it was done in the Mountain West Conference last year which became the pilot for the college game.

In terms of President Boren, I agree he's gone a little too far. I've met him and he's a pretty impressive guy, and generally a seemingly fair one -- former US Senator, etc. Again, this could mean a LOT of money one way or the other, assuming the Sooners have a strong year, but a season long suspension? That's harsh.

Finally, to the best of my knowledge, there is no precedent and no way to reverse or eliminate a win or loss in the NCAA. Maybe there should be, but as it stands, the game is over and that, as they say, is that.

ETA, in the NFL, the replay officials did not monitor the network audio -- only the pictures. If the colleges use their own camera angles exclusively, that's too bad because the normal telecast (especially network) will offer more angles from better equipment with longer lenses operated by professional camerapersons. All of that is too expensive for an athletic department to duplicate. If a producer or director chose to be selective and show only replays that favor one team or the other, they would be fired. The network couldn't afford to do that. As I said above, we offered every replay available in every challenge situation...period. I'd worry more about camera angles and shots made by a university employee who might have a bigger "home" stake in the game.

[kstar]

Originally Posted by SydneyK

Isn't this the first year the replay system has been in place in the NCAA? It seems like this can serve as a good "teaching moment" for preparing officials, TV crews, replay booth operators, etc., for subsequent seasons.

Sure, it's a shame for OU, but based on the links above, it sounds like the OU President is taking this a little too far. I understand that there's a lot at stake, I really do. But seriously, remove the game's outcome from teh record books? Come on. Suspend the officials for the remainder of the season? Now you're just going too far.

There has to be indisputable evidence to overturn the call on the field. The booth operator didn't have indisputable evidence since he didn't have access to all the camera angles (again, based only on what I've read). If he had overturned the call with the evidence he was given, then Oregon would be griping and the OU people would probably just be saying, "Get over it."

But, since I didn't see the game, my opinion probably doesn't count for much here. (Although, even those who did see the game evidently got to see more than the booth operator saw. So, perhaps those of us who didn't get to enjoy this game are a little more objective.)

I was at the game, in the Oregon section (the only scalper ticket I could afford) and the people next to us turned to me and said, "You got robbed."

It is not going too far to ask for a suspension for the season. Calling football is their JOB, if I screwed up that much at my job, I'd totally understand being fired. I'd be thanking my lucky A$$ that I'd only got suspended.

Also, there is a lot at stake. Money, bowl games, et cetera... I think Boren is right on track asking for the game to be sticken from the books. Football is religion down here.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by macallan25

Why would he not get access to the ABC feed or control over camera angles. That is the most insanely idiotic thing I have ever heard. One look at atleast 3 of the ABC camera angles would have made the call more than easy.

He doesn't get the ABC feed b/c that would allow the ABC commentators, producers and etc. undue influence in the outcome of the game (through speaking, or even by choosing which angles to replay).

Because of the replay rules, every D1 game is now filmed (even ones w/out any sort of TV coverage - HI BIG XII SYSTEM!) by multiple camera angles, and the replay official has access to those angles, as well as the ability to play back, slow down, etc (these may or may not be also used in the telecast - as far as I know, some are, some are not). Note that slowing down is a new ability - in the past, they were forced to watch it in 'real time' - but even with these options the replay official is limited in the amount of time allotted. This amount of time is determined by the Head Judge on the field, IIRC. Here, the ABC crew was reportedly putting some pressure on, as well - they have advertisers, etc to keep happy, integrity of the game be damned.

This means technical difficulties can and will happen, and will directly affect how the replay official can do his job because of the time limit - it's just crappy that here, they happened after an already attrocious call. The guy in the booth needs evidence to overturn even the worst call - he didn't get it, so he did what he was supposed to do.

[macallan25]

Originally Posted by KSig RC

He doesn't get the ABC feed b/c that would allow the ABC commentators, producers and etc. undue influence in the outcome of the game (through speaking, or even by choosing which angles to replay).

Because of the replay rules, every D1 game is now filmed (even ones w/out any sort of TV coverage - HI BIG XII SYSTEM!) by multiple camera angles, and the replay official has access to those angles, as well as the ability to play back, slow down, etc (these may or may not be also used in the telecast - as far as I know, some are, some are not). Note that slowing down is a new ability - in the past, they were forced to watch it in 'real time' - but even with these options the replay official is limited in the amount of time allotted. This amount of time is determined by the Head Judge on the field, IIRC. Here, the ABC crew was reportedly putting some pressure on, as well - they have advertisers, etc to keep happy, integrity of the game be damned.

This means technical difficulties can and will happen, and will directly affect how the replay official can do his job because of the time limit - it's just crappy that here, they happened after an already attrocious call. The guy in the booth needs evidence to overturn even the worst call - he didn't get it, so he did what he was supposed to do.

I don't know what you mean by no TV coverage in the Big XII, oh well.

So why couldn't they play the ABC feeds with no sound? Pretty sure you didn't need any to get that call right.

[KSig RC]

Originally Posted by macallan25

I don't know what you mean by no TV coverage in the Big XII, oh well.

Oh - I wasn't taking a cut at Big XII teams here, just that the Big XII signed a pretty bad TV contract a while back, which doesn't put every game on regional coverage (because it's slanted toward much wider coverage of important games, read: Texas teams minus Baylor) . . . this means that some of the teams had to pay for video for their non-conference games, even though it wouldn't be on TV, purely for replay purposes. AFAIK, this is the last year of that tragic deal, and they'll be making much more per team with future deals.

Originally Posted by macallan25

So why couldn't they play the ABC feeds with no sound? Pretty sure you didn't need any to get that call right.

When I say "feed" I mean the literal feed to the viewer, as dictated by the production trailer - they do have access to most (if not all) camera angles. This actually was part of the problem in the Oregon case, if I'm reading correctly - the two angles that were clear (and they were VERY clear) were the ones that didn't come in before the HJ asked for a ruling, and he couldn't slog through the others fast enough.

Either way, there's no doubt OU got jobbed here - I just don't think it was intentional. PAC-10 officials may very well suck on the whole, but in this case it just seems like a confluence of shitty events for the Sooners. No way the record can be changed, though - that would be a terrible precedent.

[shinerbock]

The absolute only case when a game should be overturned or negated is when the final call which ACTUALLY decides the game is completely blown. I'm talking when a field goal is good and they say its not, or when somebody is in/out of bounds on the last play in the endzone...I don't think there should be any debate in the OU case, the call was bad, but the bad call led to a drive that won the game. Game deciding yes, but the conclusion was still drawn on inferences.