Kids at nice restaurants

[jadis96]

Originally Posted by AXO Alum

As I have said before -- like most people, I was a great mom before I had kids. I get so discouraged when I hear so many young people talk about bratty kids, and how if they had a kid, he wouldn't act like that. There are going to be times that you cannot account for a child's behavior. Sometimes, even the best of circumstances turn ugly & a full fledged fit will occur before you know what is happening. These are the times where you, as a mom, want to crawl into a hole & never be seen again. I am NOT talking about the mom's (and dad's) that sit there & tolerate such behavior -- the ones that say "please don't yell" repeatedly, and keep bribing their kids to be good... I am talking about the ones (like myself) that try to correct the behavior, and if not, we leave. I believe that one of the best ways to teach a child to be polite & show good manners is at a dining establishment that doesn't have a play area! Now while we would much rather frequent Moe's once a week, it doesn't mean that once in awhile, I want to go someplace special & show my son how to behave appropriately in a nicer setting.

I disagree 100% with the DVD player -- even with headphones. You can teach your child the appreciation of dinner conversation versus allowing him or her to watch yet more TV. I was mortified to see a child that couldn't have been more than 15 months at a Cracker Barrel watching his DVD player. Yes, we eat dinner in front of the TV more than I'd like to admit, but I'm not taking it with me to a restaurant!

The difference between your comments and behaviors of many parents I see with children out in resturants is that you said the magic words if he does not behave "we leave". My parents raised both my brother and I by taking us first to family resturants then to nicer ones as our behavior was able to handle it, if one of us had a trantrum then one of my parents left the behaving child with the other parent and the misbahaving one was in the car with mom or dad for the evening. I think that made a lot of sense. We had a consequence when we distrubed other diners. My mother has since told me that she felt like it was not her right to bother other peoples dinner. Sadly, I have a friend who is on the whole a good mother, but when it comes to resturants she will let her child act like a moron. She screams, cries, runs around, etc. Before she had children we were out at a resturant and we saw a child acting like this. I expressed my digust and she replied "well that's how kids learn by watching others, eventually the child will get it." Apparently she has used this on her own kids and they are monsters in resturants. She feels like she is paying to go there and she has "the right" to let her children act any way they want. That is the attitude that bothers me. Maybe it's because I don't have kids I say that, but my mom who raised two children seems to feel the same way, I know because we have discussed it.

I say as long as the child is not disturbing others and behaving fine, but even with headphones having a dvd player in a resturant is distracting and just plain rude. Sitting and coloring quietly fine, but a dvd player crosses the line to me. Frankly if I was in the resturant and paying what I am assuming are high prices for both the meal and the decor of a nice resturant and there was a dvd player next to me, I would ask the management to move my party and then let them know that I was dissatified with my dining experience and let them know why.

[blueangel]

Dekeguy, I agree! My parents used the same approach and it worked.

When I go to a nice restaurant, I expect to have dinner in peace and quiet. That means, nobody yapping on a cell phone at the next table, and no screaming kids or children running around the restaurant.

Having said that, like Dekeguy, I DO believe children should be allowed to eat at nice restaurants with their parents, BUT they must be taught to behave FIRST. Parents should be confident that their child already knows how to act properly in this environment before taking them into a nice eating establishment. This behavior can be taught at home at the dinner table.

I wonder if family restaurants defeat the purpose as so many kids are allowed to misbehave there? I've been to a few with a good friend of mine (who has two young children), and I just can't believe the behavior that some parents tolerate. The kids chase each other around the restaurant, shoot straws at each other, and scream. If this is allowed at a "family restaurant" how does a child understand that it's not acceptable at a "nice" restaurant?

When I was a kid, my parents used to love to eat out alot. We went to some really beautiful restaurants in NYC when I was as young as four years old. I knew the rules, I knew the boundaries, and I knew the consequences if I misbehaved. I wouldn't dare break the rules or I knew I wouldn't be allowed to go out to dinner with them again.

I was not allowed to leave my chair, I was to speak softly, say please and thank you. The rules didn't bother me, because I loved getting to spend a night out on the town with mom and dad. It was a treat. I got to get all dressed up, eat grown up food and have a grown up drink (well, I thought it was.. it was a virgin cocktail). Some of my most cherished memories are these nights out on the town with mom and dad in NYC.

[NinjaPoodle]

Originally Posted by blueangel

Dekeguy, I agree! My parents used the same approach and it worked.

When I go to a nice restaurant, I expect to have dinner in peace and quiet. That means, nobody yapping on a cell phone at the next table, and no screaming kids or children running around the restaurant.

Having said that, like Dekeguy, I DO believe children should be allowed to eat at nice restaurants with their parents, BUT they must be taught to behave FIRST. Parents should be confident that their child already knows how to act properly in this environment before taking them into a nice eating establishment. This behavior can be taught at home at the dinner table.

I wonder if family restaurants defeat the purpose as so many kids are allowed to misbehave there? I've been to a few with a good friend of mine (who has two young children), and I just can't believe the behavior that some parents tolerate. The kids chase each other around the restaurant, shoot straws at each other, and scream. If this is allowed at a "family restaurant" how does a child understand that it's not acceptable at a "nice" restaurant?

When I was a kid, my parents used to love to eat out alot. We went to some really beautiful restaurants in NYC when I was as young as four years old. I knew the rules, I knew the boundaries, and I knew the consequences if I misbehaved. I wouldn't dare break the rules or I knew I wouldn't be allowed to go out to dinner with them again.

I was not allowed to leave my chair, I was to speak softly, say please and thank you. The rules didn't bother me, because I loved getting to spend a night out on the town with mom and dad. It was a treat. I got to get all dressed up, eat grown up food and have a grown up drink (well, I thought it was.. it was a virgin cocktail). Some of my most cherished memories are these nights out on the town with mom and dad in NYC.

I couldn't agree more with everything you said. I grew up the same way. I'm in San Francisco and we also have some wonderful resturants. I remember going to the Grand Hyatt back in the early 80's (yeah, I'm dating myself) all dressed up wearing a long lacy little-house-in-the-fields dress (it was the style then) and my brothers wearing a dinner jacket and ties (not clip-ons either!) Any who long story short, there were never "tantrums" or any thing like that from us because we didnt act like that at home so why would we act like that in public? Mom would kick our "square little asses" if we did act up anyway... ETA my parents never had to worry about myself and my brothers acting out because she TRAINED us to behave correctly so acting up was never an option.

[RU OX Alum]

I still anything younger than 12 or maybe 10. That is just from my memory of how I was. Going to a nice restuarant was like punishment between 5-10 for me. Family restaurants cater to families with small children so that the finer dining establishments can be enjoyed by people on dates, celebrating graduation, etc.

[BetteDavisEyes]

As long as the child behaves appropriately and isn't bothering anyone with their tantrums and/or screeching, I see no reason why others should be bothered.

I do remember that as a child, my aunt & uncle took me, my cousin, & brother (aged 6, 7, 8) to a VERY fancy french restaurant to celebrate a family engagement. I'm sure the other patrons were horrified to see three young children there but we knew what was expected of us and had a good time. It also greatly helped that the waiter was very kind and gave us Sprite's with cherries in them continuously and treated us like human beings instead of treating us like we were a nuisance.

[BetteDavisEyes]

Originally Posted by NinjaPoodle

ETA my parents never had to worry about myself and my brothers acting out because she TRAINED us to behave correctly so acting up was never an option.

That's the way we were brought up. There would be hell to pay if we embarassed my mom or any of our aunts in public.

[Tom Earp]

Originally Posted by BetteDavisEyes

That's the way we were brought up. There would be hell to pay if we embarassed my mom or any of our aunts in public.

Maybe the problem is that it isnt done that way anymore.

From what I have read, most of are the same mind.

Kids mind or they are all put out and whose fault is it?

Not the Kids, but The parents.

When kids used to come to my house when I was married, they played by My rules and did not bang stuff on furniture or spill stuff on the carpet!

When Mindy comes over with Ethan Joseph and Madison, I put my Cig out at her reqeust. I also request that they act right!

dekeguy has a very valid point and everyone who posts on here should also have the same point!

[honeychile]

My own two cents:

-If at all possible, one day a week should be set aside to practice AT HOME on how to behave at a restaurant. How children should not order $55.00 steaks, throw french fries, or kick under the table. They should learn the difference between good and bad dinner conversation, and that GOOD restaurants demand "no, sir", "yes, ma'am", "thank you", and "please" - even to the wait staff - which at home is probably Mom. (Yes, I threw the sir & ma'am in there, just in case it's not used on a regular basis!) It's good practice, and frankly, the children should thank their mother-father-cook for nice meal that was prepared for them.

-Others may/will disagree with me, but at around 10 years old, while at the Home Dinner, wine (watered down or not) can be added. Most of the people I know who do not drink themselves silly learned how to drink at home. Of course, if there is an alcoholism problem in the family, scratch this.

-Don't hold out for manners only at "fancy" restaurants! I don't particularly care to have any meal ruined by unruly children - especially when a salad bar is involved!

-When the day comes to go into any restaurant that doesn't involve a Happy Meal or a Giant Rodent, if the child misbehaves, the parent should give the child a warning that they will leave if said child doesn't start to behave. Then, DO IT! This happened a few months ago at a family restaurant, and the father marched the child out to the car, and about 10 minutes later, they came back. The child went to the three tables around them, and apologized for his behavior. We took the time to congratulate his parents on truly preparing their child for adulthood. The smile they exchanged was positively beatific!

-Finally, many of us need to remember that kids are overstimulated by so much these days, that we tend to get a little miffed about children misbehaving. We need to realize that a child with a book or a DVD with earphones is better than screaming any day of the week!

[macallan25]

^^Granted, ,my parents taught me to drink responsibly...and how to drink at different types of dinner settings (what to drink when, types of wine, etc. etc.) when I was younger.......

........but 10 years old is absolutely ridiculous. Borderline absurd. Trying to teach a third grader (if that) how to drink is completely asinine.

[AOII_LB93]

I could be making an assumption here, but I don't think she meant teach them how to drink as much as teaching them that drinking is not all crazy like a lot of Americans think it is. It's perfectly normal in Europe to have wine on the table and allow the kids a small glass (diluted or not) and when I lived there I didn't see kids (high school or younger) getting wasted the way a lot of American kids do. Granted some do, but on the whole it's not as big a deal as it is here.

A lot of this country has yet to really grasp the concept of moderation, in any form.

As for kids in restaurants, like others have said - as long as they behave and the parents follow through on the "threats". Hey I went to some very nice restaurants as a child, and I knew not to act up because my mom would give me "the look" if I thought about acting even slightly wild.

I've seen kids acting like savages at DQ, running around screaming and disturbing other patrons...it's not just limited to the nice places.

[honeychile]

Okay, make it 12-13 years old - different children has different maturity levels. I tend to forget that others were older than I in school. I was in fifth grade when I was 10, and was permitted champagne, and watered down wine when I went to a couple Sedars (not in my immediate family).

[tunatartare]

Originally Posted by macallan25

^^Granted, ,my parents taught me to drink responsibly...and how to drink at different types of dinner settings (what to drink when, types of wine, etc. etc.) when I was younger.......

........but 10 years old is absolutely ridiculous. Borderline absurd. Trying to teach a third grader (if that) how to drink is completely asinine.

I don't think that's absurd. My parents started me out slowly when I was 10.

[AlphaFrog]

Originally Posted by honeychile

-Others may/will disagree with me, but at around 10 years old, while at the Home Dinner, wine (watered down or not) can be added. Most of the people I know who do not drink themselves silly learned how to drink at home. Of course, if there is an alcoholism problem in the family, scratch this.

I completely agree. Although in our family, it started at Holiday meals only, then as you got a little older, it was at less-formal meals. I'm glad my parents did that for me. By the time I got to college, alcohol just wasn't a big deal.

[EE-BO]

I agree with deke.

Starting around age 4, my parents took all of us regularly out for formal dinner (2-3 times per month) plus the Symphony, Opera and Theater. When we traveled, a formal dinner or two would be arranged- and all kids would attend.

I cannot recall that we ever acted up in these settings. In my house that just wasn't done. Looking back I think my parents led by example. Adults misbehave in restaurants too- and kids pick up on that.

At restaurants we frequented, my parents would know the waitstaff and usually chat with them before we ordered. Politeness and regard for all is what we observed and what we practiced as a result.

In 6th grade at my school, we had mandatory Junior League training every Monday night for a few weeks. This included ballroom dancing, dining etiquette and parlor room etiquette. At the time most of us guys did not pay it too much mind, but it had an impact.

These things are important for all kids to learn. To this day, a BIG test of mine when it comes to relationships, hiring people or going into business deals with others is to watch how they behave at a restaurant.

I am not talking about table manners- I don't expect everyone to know what to do with 4 different forks at different times- but how they treat waiters, how comfortable they are, and even how they order. I still cringe every I hear someone in a restaurant say "I want" instead of "May I please have" (this has become passable in the US, but is considered extremely rude in many other nations and will offend waiter and host alike.)

But all that said, there are other diners too. And if the parents cannot control their child, they need to go to Macaroni Grill or something and suffer through mediocre food and the bad behavior of all the other kids.

There is a very clear pattern in restaurants for places to make themselves kid-friendly and cut back on food quality- yet still do tremendous volume since that many people care enough to not want to look bad with their kids in a nice restaurant but don't care enough to teach their kids how to behave in a nice restaurant.

Personally, when dining out I will not tolerate repeated hideous behavior from small children- especially at one of our wine dinners which take a lot of prior planning and expense.

I dine in places where I am a regular and I have had people with excessively bratty children ejected before- would do it again too.

If you want to let your kids run wild or watch TV at the table- fine. But don't do it at my expense.