Greek Life at "New Ivies" (as Newsweek calls them)

[PhoenixAzul]

Originally Posted by alum

Schools charge what the market will bear. Remember that private schools don't get subsidies and funding from a state's coffers as do publics.

Where I grew up and where I live now (2 VERY different areas), parents will gladly (maybe more willingly than gladly) pay full coat of attendance (COA) if it's the best fit for their kid. For us, the flagship public universities in our current state (and we have 2 in the top 30) just didn't "fit" with our oldest. Some kids just want a science/math driven curriculum like MIT, Caltech, some want Ivy only, some want a prestigious LAC. Still others want the bigger state school. It is up to the parents and the applicant to find the best fit for which the parent is willing to pay.

My college (Otterbein) is about 27,000 a year. But, I end up paying less to go there and live in than I would going to a PA state school and living in, because I qualified for merit aid. State schools didn't offer me any merit aid, and I was out of the "need" aid range. But OC offered me several sizeable scholarships that brought my costs down to about 7 a year. And the education was/is exactly what I was looking for...small classes, professors not TA's, small campus, campus "feel", and a real campus community. I didn't feel any of those at the state schools I got accepted to, nor some of the more "elite" private schools I was accepted by. I can honestly say that I do not regret my decision in the least, and the above is pretty spot on.

[alum]

PA is absolutely correct. Merit aid is another wonderful thing that not enough parents/students research while looking at schools. For middle-class earners who have been diligent about saving, the EFC is going to be quite high, in many cases greater than a year of salary. When the EFC is greater than the COA, the student won't get any need-based aid.

We have friends whose son got a full-tuition merit scholarship to RPI for 4 years. He would not have gotten one from MIT etc, simply because MIT doesn't provide them.

When a student is looking for colleges with an eye for merit aid, initially look at the mid 50% range for standardized tests. Look more closely at the schools where your SAT/ACT scores are higher than those of the schools' high end range. This is just a starting point.

Originally Posted by PhoenixAzul

My college (Otterbein) is about 27,000 a year. But, I end up paying less to go there and live in than I would going to a PA state school and living in, because I qualified for merit aid. State schools didn't offer me any merit aid, and I was out of the "need" aid range. But OC offered me several sizeable scholarships that brought my costs down to about 7 a year. And the education was/is exactly what I was looking for...small classes, professors not TA's, small campus, campus "feel", and a real campus community. I didn't feel any of those at the state schools I got accepted to, nor some of the more "elite" private schools I was accepted by. I can honestly say that I do not regret my decision in the least, and the above is pretty spot on.

[Munchkin03]

Threads and articles like this make me laugh.

"Public Ivy," "Southern Ivy," "Near-Ivies," and "New Ivies." There are only eight schools that can be called Ivies...the rest are just really good schools, but to use the term "Ivy" doesn't celebrate the schools in their own rights. I think UT is an awesome school, but never would I call it a "Public Ivy." It's just a damned good school in an awesome town.

There are only about 20 schools that I would consider sending any mini-Munchkins to. I will not pay if they go to crappy schools!

[alum]

Originally Posted by Munchkin03

Threads and articles like this make me laugh.

"Public Ivy," "Southern Ivy," "Near-Ivies," and "New Ivies." There are only eight schools that can be called Ivies...the rest are just really good schools, but to use the term "Ivy" doesn't celebrate the schools in their own rights. I think UT is an awesome school, but never would I call it a "Public Ivy." It's just a damned good school in an awesome town.

There are only about 20 schools that I would consider sending any mini-Munchkins to. I will not pay if they go to crappy schools!

Technically the Ivy League is just an athletic conference of certain midsize private schools.

[Munchkin03]

Originally Posted by alum

Technically the Ivy League is just an athletic conference of certain midsize private schools.

As the alumna of two Ivy League schools (not to mention the semester abroad sponsored by a third), and as someone who was an athlete at the Division I level in undergrad, I am quite familiar with the details of the Ivy Group Agreement. No athletic scholarships here!

[Rudey]

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/col...udoc_brief.php

First of all, your list is wrong. Here is the real list.

Second of all, the rankings are essentially set in intangible stone for the top 10 schools so these rankings are meaningless. Alums of these schools recruit grads from their schools and donate to make sure they schools can keep growing their ridiculously large endowments.

-Rudey

[hellocutie]

Thanks Rudey for the accurate list.

[KSigkid]

Originally Posted by Rudey

http://www.usnews.com/usnews/edu/col...udoc_brief.php

First of all, your list is wrong. Here is the real list.

Second of all, the rankings are essentially set in intangible stone for the top 10 schools so these rankings are meaningless. Alums of these schools recruit grads from their schools and donate to make sure they schools can keep growing their ridiculously large endowments.

-Rudey

And third of all, not all schools completely participate in the rankings. My alma mater, for example, only sends in limited information. I imagine it's the same thing with the law school rankings and grad school; it doesn't take regional factors and other issues into account. One example I constantly bring up is Suffolk Law, which is in the 70s for rankings, but has a really good reputation with Boston law firms and organizations. A good number of the managing partners, hiring partners and government lawyers attended Suffolk.

If you go to someplace like Williams, U of Chicago, etc., you don't need to know that your in whatever # place on US News. The reputation of the school speaks for itself.

I agree on the Ivies comment as well. There are the Ivies, and there are some good schools that aren't Ivies. I don't understand the whole "Almost Ivies," "Public Ivies," etc. A good school is a good school, and a strong alum base will help, Ivy or not.

[starang21]

us news and wold report also has separate lists for individual programs. does it ever seem to jive with the over list? i'm surprised michigan or berkeley aren't at the top (relatively to other schools) considering damn near every program (or at least the money-maker ones) they have is in like the top 10 according to the other lists.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by starang21

us news and wold report also has separate lists for individual programs. does it ever seem to jive with the over list? i'm surprised michigan or berkeley aren't at the top (relatively to other schools) considering damn near every program (or at least the money-maker ones) they have is in like the top 10 according to the other lists.

For Michigan, I would guess that's because of the criteria that they base the overall score on:

Average Freshman Retention Rate, 2004 ** I know an awful lot of freshman don't make it past freshman year at Michigan

Faculty Resources Rank, *** Michigan has a lot of HUGE classes and undergrad courses are often taught by GAs/TAs rather than full time professors
% of classes under 20 in 2004,
% of classes with 50 or more in 2004,
Student/Faculty Ratio 2004,
% of faculty who are full-time 2004,

[starang21]

Originally Posted by AGDee

For Michigan, I would guess that's because of the criteria that they base the overall score on:

Average Freshman Retention Rate, 2004 ** I know an awful lot of freshman don't make it past freshman year at Michigan

Faculty Resources Rank, *** Michigan has a lot of HUGE classes and undergrad courses are often taught by GAs/TAs rather than full time professors
% of classes under 20 in 2004,
% of classes with 50 or more in 2004,
Student/Faculty Ratio 2004,
% of faculty who are full-time 2004,

sounds like my alma mater. and program prestige has nothing to do with any of that. the overall rankings are usually craptastic, obviously. pay attention to individual program rankings.