Cover Causes Controversy

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by AGDee

Every working mother I know who nursed also pumped and put it in bottles and it didn't deter the baby from taking the breast again at all. They even gave my babies sugar water in a bottle in the hospital and it didn't affect their ability to latch on or nurse. I hear that argument all the time, but have never seen it happen.

That's interesting because I've never seen it work. Yet another example for me is my friend who has an eight month old who had been breastfeeding from the start. The father got very insistent about being able to feed her so the mother allowed him to give the baby breastmilk in a bottle. It created a lot of work for her because pumping is so difficult. But, she consented. They did that for a few weeks but after a short time, the baby wouldn't nurse anymore. The mother is heartbroken.

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

That's interesting because I've never seen it work. Yet another example for me is my friend who has an eight month old who had been breastfeeding from the start. The father got very insistent about being able to feed her so the mother allowed him to give the baby breastmilk in a bottle. It created a lot of work for her because pumping is so difficult. But, she consented. They did that for a few weeks but after a short time, the baby wouldn't nurse anymore. The mother is heartbroken.

Maybe it worked ok because they switched up back and forth from day one? I can't say for sure. The experts do say that it can make the baby lazy, I just dont know anybody who has experienced that. By 8 months, my kids were drinking out of sippy cups and eating food though! There were still some bottles, but it was much less frequent (like bed time only, I think.. but it's been a long time now). Even with introducing foods, the "experts" change their minds every few years and recommend something new. Maybe the type of nipple used has something to do with it too.. I dunno!

[ZTAMiami]

Oh boy! I had to come out of lurkdom for this one!

I am very impressed by some of the responses on here

The AAP recommends babies be exclusively breastfed for 6 months (that means no water, formula, cereal or baby food) and continue to be breastfed for a minimum of 1 year. There is no maximum. Breastmilk never loses nutritional value. AAP statement http://aappolicy.aappublications.org...rics;115/2/496

The WHO recommends a minimum of 2 years. http://www.who.int/nutrition/topics/.../en/index.html

The teeth argument doesn't cut it. Some babies get their first tooth at 3 months, some at 1 year. Having teeth doesn't mean babies stop sucking and start biting.

Teeth are also not a sign of readiness for the intro of solid food. Most babies do not lose their tongue thrust reflex until about 6 months. Some take longer. This is a natural protective measure to keep anything but a nipple out of their mouths. Solid food is not meant as a replacement for breastmilk. Baby food is nutritionally deficient compared to breastmilk, or formula for that matter. The point is to introduce different tastes and textures. Into the second year of life breastmilk actually becomes fattier. Here is the nutritional breakdown:http://www.kellymom.com/bf/bfextended/ebf-benefits.html

Mothers who are exclusively breastfeeding often do not introduce any artificial nipples in order to avoid nipple preference or confusion. This can lead to a bad latch or refusal to nurse. Some babies can switch easily back and forth but many can't. Many breasfed babies will not take a bottle from their mother, but will for someone else. When you are so close to the source why would you take it from a bottle?! Even if a mother did this to avoid nursing in public, she would need to express her milk at the same time her baby would be hungry. Otherwise you are asking for mastitis or a decrease in supply.

As someone else said, a pump can never extract the amount of milk that a baby can. Some women have a very abundant supply, but "clam up" with a pump.

As for discretion.....has anyone here seen a woman take her shirt and bra off to nurse? You see more belly chunk from a nursing mama than you see breast. You might get a flash of nipple in the 2 seconds it takes to latch a baby on. The entire nipple and most of the areola are in baby's mouth when nursing. I see breasts used to sell clothing, beer, cars all the time. When they are used to feed a child people freak out.

A babies needs come first. Even a one year old cannot understand that they need to wait a few minutes for mommy to get to a private area. A sippy cup does no good, as its not a source of comfort like a mother's breast is. Also realise that a newborn needs to nurse about 10x+ a day. Some 1 year olds even nurse that often. This is called feeding on demand or following babies hunger cues. Scheduling a breastfed baby often leads to low supply as well as an unhappy baby.

I was never one for a "mothers" room as many of them come equipped with a changing table and a nasty smelly trashcan. I do think its a nice option to have though, as some older babies are very distracted nursers.

Here is my personal experience:
I had an unplanned and unecessary c-section with my daughter. I had a hard time latching her on and against my better judgement allowed a few bottle of formulas in the hospital at a nurses urging It took us about 2 weeks to fix our latch because of that and it was a smooth sail from then on. My daughter never took a bottle after that, and didn't show interest in solids until about 10months. At about 1 year old 90% of her nutrional needs were met with breastmilk. At age 2 I'd say about 20%. At this point nursing fills more of an emotional need than a nutrional one. Some babies have blankies, some have mama's breasts. Nursing a toddler quells tantrums, heals booboos, and comforts in a scary or new situation.

My daughter is just about weaned now at almost 3 years old, mostly due to my pregnancy. Many women lose their milk supply do to hormonal changes during pregnancy. I think it was the perfect amount of time for both of us. She is a very spririted and independant toddler. I believe the security I have given her through nursing and the sort of gentle parenting that seems to stem from it have made her so. She is very aware of babies needs when we are in public and often comments that a crying baby needs "leche mami"

Of all the choices I have made in parenting my daughter, breastfeeding is one thing I have never doubted. I know I did the right thing.

My advice to any future mom and dads is to seek support during pregnancy. Don't wait until you have a problem. Remember that doctors have no formal training in human lactation unless they have sought it out on their own. Its not covered in medical school. Also don't listen to advice from women who never breastfed or have had a bad experience. Many moms are out to sabotage other womens breastfeeding experiences due to guilt or anger. Sad but true.

[DeltAlum]

That was a brilliant post.

Mrs. DA was one of the very first lactation consultants, working for a group of OB/GYN's in the Detroit area who founded "The Family Birthing Center" at Providence Hospital in Southfield.

I have listened to her counseling hundreds of young mothers over thousands of hours on the phone.

Breastfeeding works on supply and demand, and when you "supplement," it disturbs that pattern and can cause or exascerbate (sp?) things such as improper latching, positioning, and actually is detrimental to nursing moms who are concerned about alleged low milk supply.

Unfortunately, as you say, medical people are given little or no training in breastfeeding (I had hoped that had changed over the years, but obviously not).

I hope the people will take your experiences to heart.

[Taualumna]

Nursing is best, but you can't do it all the time if you have a full time job. And if your job is demanding, you might need to get back earlier (in Canada, you get up to a year off, but I *PERSONALLY* do not believe in it, as you may lose your chance in a promotion. Mr. Tau was originally hired for a year-long mat contract and was promoted and hired on a permanent basis about five months in. That promotion could have gone to the woman who had the baby!), so how can you nurse for an entire year? If you want your child to have your own milk, you basically have no choice but to pump.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Taualumna

Nursing is best, but you can't do it all the time if you have a full time job. And if your job is demanding, you might need to get back earlier (in Canada, you get up to a year off, but I *PERSONALLY* do not believe in it, as you may lose your chance in a promotion. Mr. Tau was originally hired for a year-long mat contract and was promoted and hired on a permanent basis about five months in. That promotion could have gone to the woman who had the baby!), so how can you nurse for an entire year? If you want your child to have your own milk, you basically have no choice but to pump.

I would say it's a matter of priority. Personally, if I were more interested in a promotion than nursing my child, I would wait to have children.

[ZTAMiami]

Many mothers have had success in going back to work and pumping while away from their babies. It takes work, dedication, education and planning, but it can be done. Employers must allow mothers regular pumping times, and a clean private place to pump. Mothers can keep their babies at the breast by nursing on cue evening, nights and all weekend. Many moms find their supply decreases a bit during the week, but revitalize it after a weekend of straight nursing.

I wish the US had a leave plan such as Canada's

[Taualumna]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I would say it's a matter of priority. Personally, if I were more interested in a promotion than nursing my child, I would wait to have children.

You can't always wait. According to Mr. Tau, the woman he replaced was probably in her mid-to-late 30s and was having her first child. Prime child-bearing years are the same years as when one builds a career.

To ZTAMiami re:

I wish the US had a leave plan such as Canada's

I really don't understand why a year off (or a 6 month/6 month split with the hubby) is such a great idea. Again, I think it's a bad thing if someone wants to move up. I have an aunt who went back to work almost immediately having her kids (and she had three!)

[AGDee]

Originally Posted by DeltAlum

That was a brilliant post.

Mrs. DA was one of the very first lactation consultants, working for a group of OB/GYN's in the Detroit area who founded "The Family Birthing Center" at Providence Hospital in Southfield.

As a hijack... my mom worked at Providence her whole career and has been a patient there for 26 of the last 33 days... I love seeing people get off on the third floor.. I call it The Happy Floor of the hospital because folks are smiling when they go there.

Back to the thread: I don't think anybody is arguing whether breast milk or formula is better. For most babies, all the evidence says that breast milk is better.

I simply never found it necessary to feed either of my babies in public(breast fed or bottle.. I did both). I made plans around their schedule.

[VandalSquirrel]

My sister had a baby July 25th and has been breastfeeding exclusively, though my nephew was being a little difficult with latching on and lost weight so she stayed in the hospital an extra couple days. The birthing center had a lactation consultant which really seemed to help and I hope that more hospitals follow that trend to try and avoid formula if at all possible.

She has lost over 34 pounds since then, and his goal was to be back at birthweight (6lbs, 12oz) by his well baby checkup last week. The little piglet was 8.5 lbs! I haven't heard about any problems with feeding while not at home yet but she works from home and that is likely a factor in not having issues yet. Sounds like a quick way to lose weight if it wasn't for the whole infant issue.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by AGDee

As a hijack... my mom worked at Providence her whole career and has been a patient there for 26 of the last 33 days... I love seeing people get off on the third floor.. I call it The Happy Floor of the hospital because folks are smiling when they go there.

Another aside.

I worked just down the street at WJBK-TV from 1977-82, Bach when it was a CBS station. Mrs. DA's sister recently had Breast Cancer surgery at Beaumont. I was chatting with a widow who lives on our block a few weeks ago and mentioned Detroit and she told me her late husband was a doctor at Beaumont for many years.

What a small world it really is.

Just a word about a comment ZTAMiami made. A husband can have an important role in the Breastfeeding relationship as a support to his wife. This is particularly true when dealing with parents, in-laws and well meaning friends who either give bad advice or question decisions. A nursing mom can be fairly fragile, and a supportive husband can deflect those comments and problems.

[Jimmy Choo]

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Most babies do not lose their tongue thrust reflex until about 6 months. Some take longer. This is a natural protective measure to keep anything but a nipple out of their mouths.

Very informative!!! Now this I did not know!

[PenguinTrax]

Originally Posted by ZTAMiami

Of all the choices I have made in parenting my daughter, breastfeeding is one thing I have never doubted. I know I did the right thing.

DITTO!

My advice to any future mom and dads is to seek support during pregnancy. Don't wait until you have a problem. Remember that doctors have no formal training in human lactation unless they have sought it out on their own. Its not covered in medical school. Also don't listen to advice from women who never breastfed or have had a bad experience. Many moms are out to sabotage other womens breastfeeding experiences due to guilt or anger. Sad but true.

Very sad and very true. I had a shouting match with my mother the day I came home from the hospital about the fact that I wanted to nurse my baby, not feed him. Still makes me angry. It was only until my mother got proof that he was growing that she let up and started to offer limited support, which did continue to grow as my son did.

[33girl]

OK another post that shows I'm 1) from a small town 2) old.

The Soroptimists (I think) used to have a "ladies lounge" in our downtown. Mom33 & I used it for the restrooms, but I'm guessing they had a breast-feeding area as well. Needless to say, it's long gone.

We really do need to have nice, enclosed lounges (not sitting on the toilet - do you eat on the toilet? I didn't think so, why should your baby?) for breastfeeding mothers and for mothers in general to take their kids to change diapers, eat etc. I don't really care for seeing little Cody's winky in my face in the diaper changing area of the ladies room, while we're on this whole discussion (especially since sometimes little Cody is old enough to yell "hi!" as I walk by).

I know parents are used to all this stuff and don't think twice about it - but not everyone is. Not everyone is in love with your child like you are. And there are some people (i.e. women who are trying to conceive and can't, women who've just miscarried) who really don't want to see all that at the present moment.

I'm not advocating keeping the kids home till they're 18, just that other peoples' feelings need to be considered as well.

[PM_Mama00]

Originally Posted by 33girl

I know parents are used to all this stuff and don't think twice about it - but not everyone is. Not everyone is in love with your child like you are. And there are some people (i.e. women who are trying to conceive and can't, women who've just miscarried) who really don't want to see all that at the present moment.

I'm not advocating keeping the kids home till they're 18, just that other peoples' feelings need to be considered as well.

AMEN.