Katrina, and the UN

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

How have they failed them?

Shinerbock-

I really am unsure where you are coming from with posting this thread and what you are really trying to ask.

Are you upset about the article on Fox.com? Or what it says? You know that Fox posted this kind of article to incite chit and piss folks off--a usual way of propagandizing folks or a classic "divide and conquer" method. It's like they are making folks choose sides--NOW!!! And IMO, this lunacy will worsen the closer the US gets toward the November, 2006 election--barring anything else "globally" happening to the US after the summer--which is very impropable...

All I got to say is don't believe the hype...

We've got, ALL OF THE UNITED STATES, and Bush and co., larger problems than chit that happenend ~1 year ago... Dude in N. Korea is lightin' up missles, Iran is about to lose it's dayum mind--I don't think we can afford to rehash that drama...

IMO, if there is one more "disaster issue" during the Bush presidency (9-11 and Katrina), then some VERY powerful people are gonna start getting involved--now, that worries me... I mean, I'm no fan of Bush, but the man can only take so much drama. And some of this isht is tough to deal with as a leader, how does on reconcile it, personally? Most folks would cut and run and Mr. Bush as stayed into the mix of things, seeing it through--yeah, he could do better--but nunna us are in his shoes... I guess, my thinking would be, can't we all just get along, dayum!!! Can't we just bring back peace-pipes and smoke it? Why do we have to deal with leaders of rogue countries that refuse to be medicated? The US has enough drama within its borders and the chit is about to be worse for some groups of people... And, it ain't like chit in the US is all that tight right now... Gas prices are atrocious... Food prices are about to be crazy... Folks are gonna starve for the basic necessities that were conquered after the depression... Do we really need to relive that history?

I think that is where some folks are coming from.

[shinerbock]

I was asking that about how the administration has failed so many people, as they claim. I agree with you that we have bigger problems to worry about, and that the administration has a lot on its plate, more than than many have.

About Fox, I don't really see them having a "divide and conquer" attitude. I mean, Fox is obviously conservative, so the UN condemning America is something conservatives wanna hear about. Likewise, MSNBC and CNN are liberal media groups. It really annoys me when people accuse Republicans of trying to divide the country. I think some republican stances are naturally devisive, but I don't think that is the purpose. However, I think the Democrats do make a point to divide, most often by attacking the administration at every chance. Now even if you disagree with Bush, you should admit that some of what the media and the DNC blames on him really has nothing to do with his presidency. The Democrats have a vested interested in breaking apart American unity on issues. It is paying dividends right now for them in the polls.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I was asking that about how the administration has failed so many people, as they claim. I agree with you that we have bigger problems to worry about, and that the administration has a lot on its plate, more than than many have.

About Fox, I don't really see them having a "divide and conquer" attitude. I mean, Fox is obviously conservative, so the UN condemning America is something conservatives wanna hear about. Likewise, MSNBC and CNN are liberal media groups. It really annoys me when people accuse Republicans of trying to divide the country. I think some republican stances are naturally devisive, but I don't think that is the purpose. However, I think the Democrats do make a point to divide, most often by attacking the administration at every chance. Now even if you disagree with Bush, you should admit that some of what the media and the DNC blames on him really has nothing to do with his presidency. The Democrats have a vested interested in breaking apart American unity on issues. It is paying dividends right now for them in the polls.

I think you've just described politics. But the finger points both ways.

[shinerbock]

Of course, however, I think it is pointed towards the Democrats right now. If and when the Democrats begin to fully control the political agenda, you'll see republicans causing more trouble too.

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I was asking that about how the administration has failed so many people, as they claim. I agree with you that we have bigger problems to worry about, and that the administration has a lot on its plate, more than than many have.

About Fox, I don't really see them having a "divide and conquer" attitude. I mean, Fox is obviously conservative, so the UN condemning America is something conservatives wanna hear about. Likewise, MSNBC and CNN are liberal media groups. It really annoys me when people accuse Republicans of trying to divide the country. I think some republican stances are naturally devisive, but I don't think that is the purpose. However, I think the Democrats do make a point to divide, most often by attacking the administration at every chance. Now even if you disagree with Bush, you should admit that some of what the media and the DNC blames on him really has nothing to do with his presidency. The Democrats have a vested interested in breaking apart American unity on issues. It is paying dividends right now for them in the polls.

The thing is Fox posted this article on their website I agree, a condeming UN report concerns most conservatives and what they may want to hear about. By why do the conservatives give a rat's ass what the UN human right's commission says? Who cares? The U.N. as a whole pulls only so much power... It is really the National Security Council that has the "pull", but that hasn't stopped some countries from acting "buckwild"--they are still dropping bombs on places they ought not be doing, like Hezabollah on Israel... It is a matter of time when Hezabollah slips in just ONE nuke device to Israel--unless that chit can be maintained and Israel flexes like they need to be doing... But that's my opinion and I could be wrong...

And I think both parties, republicans and democrats, ride on the ability to divide people. Just republicans are better at doing it than democrats. Democrats can only do it to a point unless they want to piss off the constituency they are trying to pimp votes out of. Republicans are too self-righteous to pimp for votes...

My thing is let the games begin... We are in for a trip to Congress unlike that seen in a long time... There will be gained seats and lost seats--specially in the senate. If it goes all to one party again, there will be an underground activity that the Secret Police--I mean Homeland Security--would haveta shutdown.

[shinerbock]

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity. Even after this, it still acts against the interests of the United States. Everyone likes to hear about what they hate. It gets us riled up, and for us political types, we live to get riled up.

Regarding Homeland Security, it is an imperative part of our country's defense. Secret police? You must be kidding. People are pissed about wire taps. People are pissed about torture accusations. I'd be furious if I ever found out we werent torturing people and tapping their phones. The government is charged with defending this country, and I think they should do it by whatever means needed. People can proclaim about the lack of personal freedoms, but I don't see the government stripping you of much. Chances are, tapping phones are the tip of the iceberg. I'm not worried, because I don't do anything wrong. I don't really think HS or the CIA or the DIA or NSA is concerned about what I say to my mom or girlfriend, unless it ends with "death to the infidels. All praise be to Allah."

[AKA_Monet]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity. Even after this, it still acts against the interests of the United States. Everyone likes to hear about what they hate. It gets us riled up, and for us political types, we live to get riled up.

Getting riled up is overrated. It causes one's blood pressure to increase to a point that is unhealthy. What's the point is getting angry about something that seems like it won't change?

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Regarding Homeland Security, it is an imperative part of our country's defense. Secret police? You must be kidding. People are pissed about wire taps. People are pissed about torture accusations. I'd be furious if I ever found out we werent torturing people and tapping their phones. The government is charged with defending this country, and I think they should do it by whatever means needed. People can proclaim about the lack of personal freedoms, but I don't see the government stripping you of much. Chances are, tapping phones are the tip of the iceberg. I'm not worried, because I don't do anything wrong. I don't really think HS or the CIA or the DIA or NSA is concerned about what I say to my mom or girlfriend, unless it ends with "death to the infidels. All praise be to Allah."

As long as I pay my bills on time, I don't think any agency is interested in me either. My life is rather boring right now... The minute I fail to pay one bill on time and go into collection, is when there is a full investigation into my credit score thru Equifax/Transunion/Experian as to why I am a financial risk to the entire global security...

Have you ever had your identity stolen to the point that there was a crime committed in your name?

Do you have any idea how humiliating and dehumanizing it is?

Eff being innocent till proven guilty, that chit definitely don't work in reality...

Now, imagine what it's like when you are a part of diparaged group and you are a kid with no advocacy or "political connections"...

And you wonder why folks start speaking in code or obscure foreign languages...

What you are wondering is the epistemology that historically happened a long time ago...

There is a reason why you think the way you do and in some ways, the government, which includes your society, forced you to think in a certain way...

Folks tell us we have free will and show us how we do have it... But it was not our will to be born to poor, uneducated mothers, which usually alludes to malnutrition, undeveloped neurological conditions that include fundamental learning motifs. Sure, there are exceptions to EVERY rule. But as long as there is gross neglect of children in a country that purports "freedom and democracy" to all it's citizens, then how can the least among us have a chance in this reality?

Engaging in a life a crime is the uneducated easy way out. But, it puts food on the table for some folks. It's wrong, but a necessay evil...

Some would say that an unprovoked invasion of a rogue country is a necessay evil, too... Some would say that...

[shinerbock]

Well, I wouldnt say unprovoked. Not following UN regulations for a decade gave the ample plenty of time to get their stuff together.

Regarding your comments on freedom and democracy, they seem unrelated to children starving. It is the citizens responsibility to feed the hungry and care for the sick, not the governments. As for crime, it may be an necc evil, but we still have a duty to punish it. I don't need crime to get by. Crime, more often than not, its an action of lazyness rather than neccesity. Most people don't steal to eat. While I feel for those who do steal to eat, I have no problem with them going to jail. They broke the law, and this isn't a monarchy where we are starving everyone but the elite. I feel our laws are just. There is plenty to be had, you just have to get it. I know it is difficult for many to do, but so what? The ease with which one is to procure such things is not established, it varies. Nobody should be helped nor hindered based on their starting position. The best they can do is attempt to better themselves, in order to advance the starting position of those they leave behind.

I know this may sound heartless, and perhaps it is to a degree. I think our role as the citzenry is to take care of our fellow citizens. Depending on the government simply won't work, and it shouldnt have to. Because of the government's current role, I think many institutions have stopped playing the role they should play in our society. While our religious groups do great things for the community, they generally arent the shelter for the poor and the sick and the hungry like they once were. Volunteer groups have options the government does not. It is much easier to kick people out of your home than it is for the government to stop supporting someone without means. Thus, people are often able to take advantage of the government's generosity, and much of the general public feels slighted by this. If the government held a lesser role in the charitable support community, I think people would be more willing to help. The government is impersonal, and red-tape often prevents the establishment of who really is in need and who is not. As citizens, we can tell who provides for their family and who spends it on less essential things. The upper class and the conservatives in this country are not against the poor. They are usually rebelling against the accusations of the left and the poor, which often proclaim that the rich hold no regard for them. However, from the perspective of the wealthy, they are not only paying a substantial tax burden, but also are expected to contribute charitably. So in essence, they are paying for them with their taxes, often paying through charity, and yet are still scorned by many in society. It is similar to America's role with the UN, in that we would be much more willing to contribute on all fronts if the world would acknowledge the good things we do. Similarly, I feel that a shift in the way this country supports those in need and in the attitude of some towards those who have, would open a different avenue of help and would force ordinary citizens to reach out to those who need it.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Well, I think conservatives care about the UN because we pay about 25 percent of its dues, it meets on our soil, and operates with impunity.

When we pay them. We've not been real good at that in many cases.

Also, just as a military installation is not legally a part of the state that hosts it, the UN is not technically in the United States.

It is it's own little country.