Should the system of Quota be changed? A look at the Nebraska system

[carnation]

Originally Posted by alum

The Nebraska way of setting quota numbers and the new way of NPC way of doing the numbers is going to set an artificial level of supply and demand. Shallow as they may be, some girls simply have their hearts set on certain houses for a variety of reasons. Having a smaller supply of openings at XYZ is just going to result in a higher demand for each spot and doesn't necessarily result in the girls that were denied by XYZ wanting to go to ABC.

Well see, that's one thing I was talking about. The year I rushed, one of the "Top 4" had far fewer vacancies than the rest because they'd hardly lost any over the summer. That sorority made sure that the PNMs knew they only had 25 openings and suddenly, girls would've killed to get in. Worse yet, they had several "must take" in-house legacies. Then after recruitment in addition to the agony of the girls who didn't get any bid, there were dozens of girls torn up because they didn't make that one group.

[shinerbock]

It is somewhat annoying when colleges attempt to make the systems "fair." Large fraternities and large sororities are generally that way because they are better than the others. Despite what people say on here, all groups and all people aren't equally as worthwhile.

[preciousjeni]

I have a question that is not intended, in the least, to be offensive. I've been wondering for a long time. Why would sororities want to "err" in favor of the PNMs and not themselves? These are businesses regardless of any consideration of status. You'll want to take the best you can get to ensure the vitality of the organization in its future.

And in this business world, your concern is yourself, not the other businesses in your same market. Why should stronger businesses be restrained in favor of struggling businesses? Well, I guess that's two questions.

And a third, what is the purpose of leveling the field? I'm asking because competition has always been a significant part of the social Greek system, as well it should be. Otherwise, why have sororities at all? Why not have open membership social clubs?

I suppose all my questions are basically the same!

ETA: At the risk of sounding insensitive, why is there so much concern over unhappy PNMs?

[shinerbock]

Holy crap, I actually agree with you on something^

[carnation]

[ETA: At the risk of sounding insensitive, why is there so much concern over unhappy PNMs?[/QUOTE]

Nobody likes to see people be torn up, especially good people who deserve better. I've spoken before of how horrible it was when I had to sit in the room at Mississippi State where the girls got their returns and so many were cut by groups they wanted or groups that their older friends were in or their fellow PNMs were still being invited back to.

Rejection of any kind is devastating.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by carnation

[ETA: At the risk of sounding insensitive, why is there so much concern over unhappy PNMs?

Nobody likes to see people be torn up, especially good people who deserve better. I've spoken before of how horrible it was when I had to sit in the room at Mississippi State where the girls got their returns and so many were cut by groups they wanted or groups that their older friends were in or their fellow PNMs were still being invited back to.

Rejection of any kind is devastating.

I know how tough it can be both on the part of the PNM and the sorority women. And it's not easy to cut wonderful women. But, why let that be a big consideration when you (general you) already have your own sorority's health to worry about? That seems like a lot of added stress! Plus, not everyone will fit with the values of a particular sorority. And many PNMs won't fit in any sorority on campus. That's doesn't mean the PNMs isn't amazing...just that she isn't a good fit.

I think what concerns me is that more and more PNMs should be placed in the different sororities seems to reinforce the stereotype that NPC orgs are interchangeable, as if it's all one big sorority and each sorority is a different chapter within the big sorority. In reality, each sorority has it's own history and purpose, not to mention its own ethos. So, it's not surprising that it's not always a perfect fit. You know? (I don't know if that made sense!)

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I know how tough it can be both on the part of the PNM and the sorority women. And it's not easy to cut wonderful women. But, why let that be a big consideration when you (general you) already have your own sorority's health to worry about? That seems like a lot of added stress! Plus, not everyone will fit with the values of a particular sorority. And many PNMs won't fit in any sorority on campus. That's doesn't mean the PNMs isn't amazing...just that she isn't a good fit.

I think what concerns me is that more and more PNMs should be placed in the different sororities seems to reinforce the stereotype that NPC orgs are interchangeable, as if it's all one big sorority and each sorority is a different chapter within the big sorority. In reality, each sorority has it's own history and purpose, not to mention its own ethos. So, it's not surprising that it's not always a perfect fit. You know? (I don't know if that made sense!)

Yes, and there will always be PNMs who don't fit. But it seems to work better if the sororities look out for the panhel as a whole then for their individual chapters. No one's suggesting that the NPC favors quantity over quality.. that's actually one of the fastest ways a chapter can collapse.

Yeah, it really sucks to see PNMs who are devestated, but many of them would have found a chapter that fit them if they hadn't listened to gossip or only considered "elite" chapters. That's why rotationals are required, so that you see EVERY chapter. But that doesn't keep some 18 year old from looking at them with an open mind. I feel that if PNMs were more prone to making their own judgements instead of following the peer pressure crowd, more would be happy.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

I have a question that is not intended, in the least, to be offensive. I've been wondering for a long time. Why would sororities want to "err" in favor of the PNMs and not themselves? These are businesses regardless of any consideration of status. You'll want to take the best you can get to ensure the vitality of the organization in its future.

And in this business world, your concern is yourself, not the other businesses in your same market. Why should stronger businesses be restrained in favor of struggling businesses? Well, I guess that's two questions.

And a third, what is the purpose of leveling the field? I'm asking because competition has always been a significant part of the social Greek system, as well it should be. Otherwise, why have sororities at all? Why not have open membership social clubs?

I suppose all my questions are basically the same!

ETA: At the risk of sounding insensitive, why is there so much concern over unhappy PNMs?

Erring in favor of the PNMs doesn't lower the quality of women you accept. If you don't want to accept women, you can cut them. Your bid list is made up of ONLY women that you want. Sororities are businesses but we made an agreement w/in the NPC to work together. Some people may see these as restrictions, but I think they're benefits.

In a large Greek system, there will always be the stronger and weaker chapters. Heck even in a small Greek system this is the case. My chapter was seen as "weaker" because we COB'd every year. We made quota through COBs though and some of our strongest leaders came from the "didn't want to rush" crowd. If there isn't a limit of some sort (quota) then 2 chapters could but the weakest 2 out of business. But it's in the NPCs best interest to have an overall strong Greek system. Too few chapters means more women without bids, means more anti-Greek feeling, etc.

It's a great big balancing act that I think generally the NPC succeeds at. Expansion is controlled so that chapters have a chance to settle in, and then if there are a large number of PNMs another chapter can be added.

If the chapters were all local, there wouldn't be the same amount of cooperation (likely). But because one campus' has a struggling XYZ doesn't mean that on another campus XYZ isn't the "top" chapter. So we chose cooperation.

Finally, no NPC sorority thinks that it is right for every woman out there. We're not like Microsoft thinking that EVERYONE should use a PC. Some women feel more at home in Tri Delta, some feel more at home in ASA, some feel more at home in Theta Nu Xi and some feel at home in DST.

We feel that encouraging Greek Life in general helps each of our sororities in particular.

[shinerbock]

One day, I hope we stop concerning ourselves so much with how people feel. This self esteem boosting weakens people in the long run.

[preciousjeni]

Originally Posted by Drolefille

But it's in the NPCs best interest to have an overall strong Greek system. Too few chapters means more women without bids, means more anti-Greek feeling, etc.

Ok - this makes sense to me. It sounds like NPC sororities are all like sisters to each other more than competition. I see how that's a great thing, but isn't it hard to maintain your identity in the bigger family?

We feel that encouraging Greek Life in general helps each of our sororities in particular.

Absolutely. Theta Nu Xi strongly supports Greek Life and Unity, but we definitely do it in another way. Maybe that's an asset to all though. We're getting at different aspects of anti-Greek sentiment.

[Drolefille]

Originally Posted by preciousjeni

Ok - this makes sense to me. It sounds like NPC sororities are all like sisters to each other more than competition. I see how that's a great thing, but isn't it hard to maintain your identity in the bigger family?

Absolutely. Theta Nu Xi strongly supports Greek Life and Unity, but we definitely do it in another way. Maybe that's an asset to all though. We're getting at different aspects of anti-Greek sentiment.

Well there's the difficult bit. Everyone knows that the chapters on campus don't always get along. We ARE girls after all. It's easy for me to step back now and not roll my eyes at members of XYZ, but a year ago.. geez man they were the enemy!

Luckily our HQs are able to step back and try to work for Greek Life as a whole. On campus, panhel has to enforce the rules, and generally they get along just fine, but you don't lose your identity in some panhellenic org, because there isn't one. Does that make sense?

On the national level, we all work together even though we are distinct. On the campus level, we're made to work together even though we are distinct.

[FSUZeta]

chapters with a history of high return rates(a high percentage of girls wanting to return to their next party) have to release a higher percentage of pnms than those chapters whose return rates are not as high. this is done in the hopes that those pnms, who are released from the more "popular" chapters will hang around, accept the invitations that have been extended to them, and find a home.

of the campuses that i know that use this model, it has not hurt the chapters who have had to release more pnms early on. they are still making quota-couldn't say if more pnms are accepting bids overall.

(this is why some of us encourage pnms to try to obtain recs. to as many sororities on their campuses as they can-it is difficult to get to know a lot about a young woman in 15 or 20 minutes- a rec. provides more info,including background info., clubs, activities, honors and might help keep the pnm off the early release list)

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by exlurker

Number of Invitations to Parties?

On the subject of "devastated" or "disappointed" PNMs -- I just read a post in another thread about Auburn's fall '06 schedule. Days 1 & 2 -- all 16 chapters; Days 3 & 4 -- up to 12 chapters; Day 5 -- up to 6 chapters; Day 6 (Pref) -- 3 chapters. I was wondering if, in combination with using release figures, college panhellenics (not just Auburn, not just SEC) are also taking steps to maximize the number of parties a PNM will be invited to (while of course allowing chapters to make membership selection decisions along the way).
What I'm getting at is this: panhellenics apparently don't want "super-popular" chapters to string some PNMs along when there's no way they'll pref or bid them. That's fine. But, are panhellenics making efforts to ensure that, as much as possible, PNMs do get a chance to be invited to "the max" number of parties for each round, so that both the PNMs and the chapters have (maybe) more chances to make connections and see if there's a possible fit?
I ask because I can understand how it might be disappointing to be cut from a few "super-popular" chapters. However, for young women who ARE willing to keep an open mind (and have the grades, recs, good personalities/reputations, etc.) I can believe that it
would be a real blow to receive far fewer invitations than the "max" for a given round.
Just wondering, and of course I may be way off base compared to what actually happens in the SEC and other highly competitive recruitments.

Sort of related - I noticed from Carnation's Auburn post on the SEC thread that first round PNMs go to 16 parties, then 2nd round they go to 12. Back in the day at Illinois, we went to 22 parties first round and had to cut down to 8 for second round. I don't know if Illinois still does that (I know they don't have 22 anymore) but it is impossible for PNMs to give chapters a chance when they have to cut so many so soon. I am glad to see that at least Auburn lets them keep a lot of chapters for a second look.

ETA: Our parties were 22-8-5-3, the current website says this year it will be 20-10-6-3. 20 to 10 is still a huge cut.

[carnation]

I'm glad that Auburn has stretched out the rush week as well. When I was there, we did 14-9-5-3-2 and those 14 ice water teas were ALL in one day. It didn't help the PNMs who didn't yet know the sororities at all but then back in the day, AU was kind of set up for the people who had always known the campus, always known they'd be going there. It was like rush was set up for the sororities to quickly cut down to the women whom they were truly considering and they'd known who they were for ages.

[PenguinTrax]

When I hear the 'horror' stories of Recruitment events at campuses that do not use the quota/total system, I get the heeby-jeebies. It turns the whole event into a ruthless series of events with much disappointment on all sides. The new release figures method does work to maintain healthy chapter numbers across the board. On some campuses there are slightly fewer women pledging, but there are also more women dropping out of recruitment earlier in the process, and these women are not maximizing their options. The numbers set for quota are staying about the same vs. previous years when (the newer) release figures were not used.

There is going ot be disappointment on all sides, but I think that completely dispensing with the system, especially in a competitive environment, would lead to more problems.


Here is an excellent presentation on how and why the release figures work (Powerpoint format): http://www.odos.uiuc.edu/GREEK/recru...ruitSummit.ppt