Stage set for possible showdown on gay marriage

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by KSigkid

Definitely - personally I'm not against same-sex marriage, so that may be clouding my judgement. However, at some point it always comes down to a religious/moral argument, and that doesn't sit well with me when making legal decisions.

Exactly, and this is why I'm so bothered when people advocate in favor of laws prohibiting gay marriage. I don't buy the "it should be left to the states" argument mentioned earlier in this thread, because there is no non-religion-based basis for any state to enact a law prohibiting gay marriage.

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by valkyrie

Exactly, and this is why I'm so bothered when people advocate in favor of laws prohibiting gay marriage. I don't buy the "it should be left to the states" argument mentioned earlier in this thread, because there is no non-religion-based basis for any state to enact a law prohibiting gay marriage.

That's true. Also, Mississippi dragged us into the civil war under the banner of state's rights when really they just wanted to keep slaves. Then Lincoln et al came down to supress state right's under the banner of freeing the slaves. Hypocrites and Horsesh*t on both sides of that conflict.

[shinerbock]

Lets not bring the War into this. However, you're still mistaken regarding your non religious based reasoning. Not only is it counterproductive, it also is very troubling to corporations who have to provide benefits. I recently spoke to one of my fathers business associates, who works for a large international corporation here in Atlanta. He said that gay marriage is a big concern for them, as partners do not tend to be long term, and that the health insurance costs are higher. I'm sure the majority of people in Mass. want gay marriage, and they should have it. But the huge majority of people in Georgia don't, and I think they should make the call about what is seen in their community.

[DeltAlum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

it also is very troubling to corporations who have to provide benefits.

So, that makes the debate religious and business/financial, I guess. Still the wrong reasons in my opinion.

I would simply point out that many companies, as well as government entities are now offering benefits to employees' life partners and my guess is that the trend will continue in order to keep valued employees.

[greekalum]

A huge majority of the gay marriages tend to be less longterm than straight marriages? Or gay relationships tend to last less than straight relationships? Because "partners do not tend to be long term" is not a statement of fact. There are no statistics to show that gay marriages would have divorce rates equal, less than, or greater to straight marriages yet.

As for health care costs, many companies already offer health benefits to domestic partners, so gay marriage wouldn't increase those costs at all.

[Drolefille]

Gays are a small percentage of the population, their marriage benefits are not going to bankrupt, or even hurt anyone.

I think the only reason some perceive gay relationships to be shorter term is because there isn't a long term binding option. How many people have been through a rough patch in their marriage where if they'd just been dating, they would have broken up?

[shinerbock]

I'm just telling you the concerns of people in the corporate world. I personally see no benefit or reason to allow gay marriage, especially beyond something like civil unions.

[valkyrie]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

I'm just telling you the concerns of people in the corporate world. I personally see no benefit or reason to allow gay marriage, especially beyond something like civil unions.

That's fine, but the fact that you don't see a benefit or reason to allow it doesn't mean it should be prohibited.

[sdsuchelle]

shinerblock -- this is purely a hypothetical question, but:

if one of your children turned out to be a homosexual -- would your feelings on this issue differ? what would you do about it?

[RU OX Alum]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

Lets not bring the War into this.

You're the one who brought it up. Don't bring it up if you don't want it broughten up. You up-bringer.

[SydneyK]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

.. it also is very troubling to corporations who have to provide benefits. I recently spoke to one of my fathers business associates, who works for a large international corporation here in Atlanta. He said that gay marriage is a big concern for them, as partners do not tend to be long term, and that the health insurance costs are higher.

About the health care costs companies would face should gay marriage be allowed... Generally, health care is more expensive for women than it is for men. So, technically, companies would fare better (economically) to provide coverage to male-male couples than any other kind. I don't buy the "health care costs would go up" argument.

[shinerbock]

You're right about women, and obviously I'm no expert on health insurance...however, would being gay, and having a higher risk of certain problems, not raise prices? It may not, but I have heard this.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by shinerbock

You're right about women, and obviously I'm no expert on health insurance...however, would being gay, and having a higher risk of certain problems, not raise prices? It may not, but I have heard this.

Higher risk of what problems, exactly, and proof of these risks?

Being overweight, smoking, etc. also raises prices. Skinny people are allowed to marry fat people.

BTW, no one's saying that gays have to be married by every church or whatever. "Marriage" and "civil union" are just being used interchangeable, what it comes down to are the rights. No one's going to tell your church, OMG you have to marry gay people! That's up to each church to do what they want. Just like a church/priest can decline to marry a couple who have been "living in sin" before they were married.

How about some actual, logical arguments, instead of my daddy said this, my sister said that?

[Rudey]

Why can't people in this country marry an animal and have sex with it?

What is so wrong with that?

Marriage is a right. Controlling the life and death of an animal is completely acceptable (check out all that meat you eat, the fine leathers you wear, and the bone miniatures and sculptures that adorn your house).

-Rudey

[shinerbock]

Really, well seeing as my father is a corporate executive, and my sister is a clinical psychologist, I don't think they're bad people to ask. I believe I've presented a health care professional as a source, while you simply regurgitate what you've heard from God knows who. How about some logical arguments from you? Perhaps you could put aside your ACLU talking points and come up with something valid. I know your blatent disregard for people who think like I do is hard to overcome, but you lack any rationale in your statements. You simply act as though people who think like me (the majority of the country, might I add) are backwoods idiots who aren't educated enough to realize with the issue at hand is. In fact, we are people who cherish American values, and as much as this may offend you, it still remains the case. In regarding civil unions v. marriage, they are not the same. A marriage is a sacred institution which was founded with religious basis. A civil union would just provide people with certain benefits they might otherwise not recieve. It seems most people on this board can argue in a civil manner, but I guess you were not taught such things. Just because you don't value something many (most) Americans do, obviously does not mean it is of no importance. I highly doubt you're intelligent enough or refined enough to make such decisions for people, and continuing to act as an asshole doesnt aid your case.