Are recs obsolete?

[carnation]

Originally Posted by kddani

I can sympathize with having to make a lot of cuts early on, but you can easily cut for grades. And then you'd really have to trust the instincts of sisters who met the PNM during first round for the rest of the cuts.

But see, there are schools where it's so selective to get in--plus their recruitment is competitive--and there are no grade cuts. It's so hard to get into UGa now that there's no way there are any freshman grade cuts! That leaves the sororities with hundreds of girls they must cut in a short period of time and no easy way to choose who to drop. Georgia Tech has no freshman grade cuts either.

[kddani]

Originally Posted by carnation

But see, there are schools where it's so selective to get in--plus their recruitment is competitive--and there are no grade cuts. It's so hard to get into UGa now that there's no way there are any freshman grade cuts! That leaves the sororities with hundreds of girls they must cut in a short period of time and no easy way to choose who to drop. Georgia Tech has no freshman grade cuts either.

So then why should something ridiculously arbitrary, like the lack of a piece of paper, be a reason to cut a girl? Why not go on first round impressions, resume, etc.?

Especially when everyone says "oh recs aren't REQUIRED, it is the sorority's responsibility to get them". Panhel pages and sorority HQ pages say recs are the sorority's responsibility to procure. It's talking out of both sides of your mouth, which is what I really hate about recs. You're giving misinformation to girls, then punishing them when they follow what they were told.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by kddani

So then why should something ridiculously arbitrary, like the lack of a piece of paper, be a reason to cut a girl? Why not go on first round impressions, resume, etc.?

Because when you have 3000 girls going through, there's NWIH you can remember them all.

I'm sure groups do look at certain things on resumes, but to get too into that on here is a little dicey.

[FSUZeta]

also some school do not ask for a resume for recruitment purposes, and have te-ninecy blanks in which the pnm is supposed to fill in her interests, activities, honors, etc. even if the panhellenic says that you can include a resume, there is no guarantee that panhellenic is going to make multiple copies of it and give one to each chapter.

however, when i write a rec. for someone, i ask that they send me a copy of their resume(and ask them to make sure it is up to date) and a photo-i fill out our membership information form, attach the girls resume and photo, and write a personal letter to the chapter. i feel that it gives the chapter insight into the pnm that they can not get from the recruitment application, and may not get in the quick, 20 minute conversaton of first parties.

[carnation]

Originally Posted by 33girl

Because when you have 3000 girls going through, there's NWIH you can remember them all.

Also, first parties at some schools are only 20-30 minutes and you go to 16-18 of those parties in 2 days. It's really hard for most girls to remember the sororities and most sororities to remember all the girls.

I hate it that many recruitment booklets tell the girls not to get recs, that the sororities will get them, because at most schools I've worked with--they won't! Not unless you're super super special! It's like the hidden secret is "but they really won't get them and if you're in the know, you know that."

[kddani]

What does the green book say about recs?

[Little E]

Originally Posted by carnation

I hate it that many recruitment booklets tell the girls not to get recs, that the sororities will get them, because at most schools I've worked with--they won't! Not unless you're super super special! It's like the hidden secret is "but they really won't get them and if you're in the know, you know that."

This might be how it's done, but perhaps that needs to be changed. The process needs to at least be manageable for all women, not just the ones who are a triple legacy. I would be livid if I saw a chapter doing this. The least we can do for the young women wanting membership is be as straight forward as we can, where we can.

[33girl]

Originally Posted by Little E

This might be how it's done, but perhaps that needs to be changed. The process needs to at least be manageable for all women, not just the ones who are a triple legacy. I would be livid if I saw a chapter doing this. The least we can do for the young women wanting membership is be as straight forward as we can, where we can.

(first off, I'm not trying to assume or insinuate anything about any GLO's membership selection policies)

It may be that some sororities have in their national bylaws that all pledges must have a rec from an alumna or she cannot be pledged. If the girls all had to get them on their own at your school or mine, we would probably have zero pledges as so many of the people aren't steeped in the Greek system and don't decide at age 5 to rush. But if it's in the national bylaw, it has to be done, and so chapters at schools like this do get the recs for the girls. So they can't turn around at another chapter and say that the rushees HAVE to do it. Do you get what I'm saying?

[Little E]

Originally Posted by 33girl

(first off, I'm not trying to assume or insinuate anything about any GLO's membership selection policies)

It may be that some sororities have in their national bylaws that all pledges must have a rec from an alumna or she cannot be pledged. If the girls all had to get them on their own at your school or mine, we would probably have zero pledges as so many of the people aren't steeped in the Greek system and don't decide at age 5 to rush. But if it's in the national bylaw, it has to be done, and so chapters at schools like this do get the recs for the girls. So they can't turn around at another chapter and say that the rushees HAVE to do it. Do you get what I'm saying?

I'm not talking about private membership selection.

I'm saying that if PNMs DO need a rec because of how the chapter treats recs, then the chapter has a duty to say the PNMs that they NEED a rec before recruitment. Not, as Carnation suggested, say that PNMs do NOT need a rec, when in reality they DO (and those w/out the rec would be cut). All I advocate is a clearly articulated process that we expect PNMs to follow. I'm not against the rec, I'm against saying one thing but having a hidden meaning that only people closely associated with the school and its traditions would know.

[KSUViolet06]

I've heard recs compared to a college application. Submitting an application is required for the school to consider you, but obviously doesn't guarantee you'll be admitted.

QUESTION:

Why do some Panhellenics say on their sites that recs are the responsibility of the CHAPTER when that clearly isn't the case? I can think of at least 2 SEC school's sites who say that.

[irishpipes]

Originally Posted by JocelynC

QUESTION:

Why do some Panhellenics say on their sites that recs are the responsibility of the CHAPTER when that clearly isn't the case? I can think of at least 2 SEC school's sites who say that.

I believe it is because Panhellenic wants to promote a sense that recruitment is fair and even - that there is no social elitism in Greek life. Plus, if taking a napkin from a rush party is an infraction, I am sure officially requiring a rec would be too. That would be hazing or some other horrible maltreatment of PNMs.

I am with Dani on this one. I do NOT think that the recruitment guides should say that ACB requires a rec and DEF doesn't - PNMs may take that to mean that ABC is more exclusive that DEF. I DO think that the recruitment guides should stop promoting the lie that chapters will get recs for you since it is technically their responsibility. The guidebooks should inform PNMs that although the procurement of recommendations is ultimately the responsibility of the sorority, it is in the PNM's best interests to obtain recommendations for each chapter before recruitment begins.

I don't see this as being any different from informing PNMs on what to wear. Actually, a chapter is more able to overlook a PNM who over or under-dresses for a party than one who does not have a rec when that chapter requires one for membership consideration.

My sisters (biological) frequently made comments like, "we really liked her but she just didn't have a rec and we had to let her go." PNMs need to know this is the case.

[AUAZD2001]

When I was a PNM (almost 5 years ago!) and I read the statement in my Recruitment Handbook "It it the responsibility of the individual sororities to obtain a reccomendation for a PNM," I took that statement to mean that if you made it through to the end of recruitment and they wanted to offer you a bid, that they would get a reccomendation. And I thought that maybe the chapter advisor or someone like that would write the rec.

That's just the way I imagined it would be. How naive I was back then. Those sure were innocent times.

[texgal]

Originally Posted by carnation

But see, there are schools where it's so selective to get in--plus their recruitment is competitive--and there are no grade cuts. It's so hard to get into UGa now that there's no way there are any freshman grade cuts! That leaves the sororities with hundreds of girls they must cut in a short period of time and no easy way to choose who to drop. Georgia Tech has no freshman grade cuts either.

What do you mean, they have no grade cuts? As in, there is no minimum GPA set by Panhellenic to go through recruitment, or each individual chapter doesn't have a minimum grade that they will cut for? Because that seems very odd if individual chapters don't have minimums, even if they don't publicize them.

[TSteven]

Originally Posted by texgal

What do you mean, they have no grade cuts? As in, there is no minimum GPA set by Panhellenic to go through recruitment, or each individual chapter doesn't have a minimum grade that they will cut for? Because that seems very odd if individual chapters don't have minimums, even if they don't publicize them.

The chapters and university do have minimum GPA requirements. The issue is that the girls (PNMs) have GPAs that are equal to or above the chapter's GPA minimum requirement. Thus the chapter is not able to base cuts on grades since every PNM is at or above it.

[blueangel]

While I understand the idea behind recs, I do want to point out that they can put girls hailing from certain geographical locations at a supreme disadvantage.

Where I live, sororities and fraternities are just not a big deal. I literally had never met a single Greek until I moved south and arrived on campus at UF. Nobody in my family had ever belonged to a GLO, nor had any of my friends or their families.

I've since moved back to the north-east, and nobody here I know is Greek (other than those I've met in my alumnae chapter).