balanced man vs traditional

[TrueSPE]

That etiquette dining thing is probably the shittiest thing I've ever heard of in my life. Wow. Maybe we overgeneralize the embarassment that the BMP is to our fraternity sometimes, but with that kind of shit, it's hard not to.

And it's pretty obvious that etiquette is a direct result of the BMP. What was once a social fraternity is becoming an honors society. GPA and numbers become all that counts, rather than brotherly love. At the least, the BMP is seriously dividing the chapters, ruining our core virtue. Fuck it.

[sigepsal]

wow... so i guess this is quite the headed discussion. and to be honest.. i think the largest problem here is a huge misunderstanding... and quite honestly.. a little ignorance...

to say that you can tell when a chapter is BMP and Traditional just by meeting them is ridiculous, cause i know A LOT of chapters that don't fit either mold.

the program itself is not built to tear down ur unity as a fraternity, but i think in a lot of cases it brings your fraternity closer together. there are still obvious pledge classes (no, we don't call them that, but they are guys that all come in together and go through the program at the same time), but they are not as segregated as pledge-brother. i think that this brings together the fraternity as a whole, breaking down the smaller clicks such as pledge classes.

just because you are a weak member in a BMP chapter does not mean you get a free ride through the whole program. at any time a brother can be brought to standards and kicked out. there are a lot of standards that sig eps are held accountable to, and it is the chapters responsibility to make sure those standards of membership do not drop. and, members that do not meet those standards can be kicked out by the standards board at any time. so again, it is up to the chapter to keep their members strong, and not let anyone slide through the program.

as for the respect issue, that is just ridiculous also. you want respect, win shit. let ur record speak for itself. how can another fraternity tell you that you are weak if you beat them in all sports. beat them in greek week. or whatever else your school has.

"sigma phi everyone"? again, this has nothing to do with the bmp. if you have low recruitment standards then that if your personal choice. the men you bid should be carefully evaluated and selected whether you are bmp or traditional. the best chapters, traditional or bmp, have some of the highest recruitment standards.

to say that gpa and numbers count more than brotherly love is way out of line. you are taking things way out of context. think about things this way: if a brother has "brotherly love" toward you and the chapter shouldn't he uphold the standards of the fraternity? then he should then be held accountable for the gpa levels set by the fraternity. and, in turn, a brother who does not hold another brother up to the standards set forth also does not have tru "brotherly love". and the whole numbers thing, you have to have numbers to run a fraternity. numbers are stressed by traditional and bmp. some of the largest chapters in the national are traditional. numbers is important across the board.

the bmp was introduced to sigma phi epsilon in the wrong manner. 'forcing' chapters to convert or get shut down was the worst thing the national chapter could possibly do. because with that, the bmp came with negative connotations that have stuck.

we are sigep. we have always been different. we should not be afraid of the balanced man ideal or program. if traditional works for you and your chapter than more power to you. but to say that other fraternities think we are less because of it is ridiculous. with our roots we have shown to be innovative and groundbreaking. the balanced man ideal is the next step. it is not a coincidence that tons of other fraternities have copied this model and applied it accordingly. we should be proud of who we are, and the direction we are going.

[GAFU SC Alpha]

Originally Posted by sigepsal

the bmp was introduced to sigma phi epsilon in the wrong manner. 'forcing' chapters to convert or get shut down was the worst thing the national chapter could possibly do. because with that, the bmp came with negative connotations that have stuck.

Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

but to say that other fraternities think we are less because of it is ridiculous

This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

the balanced man ideal is the next step. it is not a coincidence that tons of other fraternities have copied this model and applied it accordingly.

Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

It would really suck if my beloved fraternity got the National repuation equivalent to that of someone like TKE.

[sigepsal]

[QUOTE=GAFU SC Alpha]Well I agreed with ONE thing you said. Well put. You make an excellent, and unheard, point. Now what to do about it?! Any bright ideas?

yes... i have a great idea... we educate people on what the balanced man program truly is and what it means... because a lot of the statements made show that many people don't know what it really is.


Your rant also failed to address other things like "Why are BMP chapters suck stuck-up dicks?" (not always, but very often)

you are making assumptions about bmp chapters. i could have made assumptions about traditional chapters hazing, but i don't. because that is not what traditional chapters stand for and that is not what they are about. bmp chapters are not about being stuck up, they are about making men better (what i thought our fraternity was about the whole time).

You said BMP demolishes small cliques like "pledgeclasses." Those are not cliques (or clickes are you so "eloquently" misspelled it) nor are they SMALL. I'd hardly say 30+ guys is a small clique. They are gentleman, often of the same age, who help one another through the process thus forming life-long bonds -simliar to what they will hold with the rest of the fraternity. Yeah... you go erradicate those... good thinking.

but why separate those 30+ guys from the rest of the fraternity? because they were born at a later date? or because they decided to join after other men. they can still do things together as a class, but why separate them as a whole.


This is not ridiculous. Go talk to fraternities at UGA, or Richmond and ask what they think about SigEp. Better yet, ask some sorority girls.

this has nothing to do with the bmp. this has to do with the members of those fraternities and them blaming the bmp for that. go talk to other fraternities at Oregon State or LMU (and I am sure there are a ton more). Or better yet, ask some of the girls there. They will tell you how SigEp dominates those campuses even though they have a BMP program


Like who??? Cite some examples! (You didn't ever work for Enron, did you?)

LOL. Examples include: Sigma Nu's LEAD, Phi Tau's "Total Man Program" and their "Building Men of Character", SAE's True Gentlemen Program. And, as stated in earlier posts, sororities have also jumped on the bandwagon. Fraternities across the board have slowly moved to some type of development program similar to the BMP, even if they are not calling it something specific.

at no point did i ever say bmp was better than traditional. as i said before, if traditional works for you, than that is what works. but the bmp is working for a lot of chapters all around the nation. and, because of that, and because of the lack of education about the bmp i think it is irresponsible to criticize it without fully knowing it.

i think i answered most of your questions....

[raider59]

This fall I will be going through Epsilon rite (full initiation). My observations after a year of new membership:

Things I like about the BMP:
-no hazing = no bodily harm or trips to the ER, no resentment towards actives
-required participation in IMs and community service
-required participation in house officer cabinets
-actives were nice to us and I didn't have to spend half a year being treated like I were less than a person
-The house projects are probably my favorite part of the BMP. Instead of destructive hazing, each of our sigma classes leaves their mark on our house in the form of a constructive project such as chapter tables, lawn repair, etc.

Things I don't:
-the EDGE "leadership program" was an absolute waste of time for me and every sigma from my school that went with me. The only thing it taught me was that people from my school are more well-adjusted than people from other schools.
-The aforementioned holier-than-thou attitude. Sucks.
-On top of that last point... it's become clear that there are a few people in my house who joined SigEp with the mindset that it was more of an honor society than a social fraternity. This is a bullshit attitude and it needs to stop.
-The things we can't do: "responsible" hazing. This fall when I'm fully initiated, I can't half-jokingly bark orders at sigmas to do kegstands or shots while singing the songs (as was done to me) for fear of having our charter pulled. I am told that scavenger hunts, described to me as the most entertaining event of pledgeship, might be off limits. I am not a fan of the zero-tolerance policy.
-The length of time it takes to be fully initiated: more or less twice as long as a traditional pledge period.
-The minimum GPA for recruitment: I understand that we want to stay on top of everyone academically, but you can't tell me that a potential with a 2.7 coming out of high school will wreck our house while a 3.0 guy is the perfect fit.
-Number one problem with the BMP as it applies to my chapter: apathy. The reason I wasn't as close to some of my sigma class as I would have liked is that some of them just flat out didn't show up to shit. They'd appear for parties... and that's all I would see of them. Not even coming to chapter. And we can't do anything about it. We can't kick them out because as per BMP we're not allowed to blackball sigmas. There shouldn't have to be an incentive to show up for house events, but it's a really aggravating situation for me right now.


Well, the cons list looks longer than the pros... but I didn't join SigEp because of the Balanced Man Program. I joined because I saw potential for real friendship in the brothers of the house. I in no way look down upon traditional chapters; rather, I embrace them as brothers, as I hope they would me. BMP or not, you'll find me partying at the house every weekend.

Thanks for reading. Thoughts, comments and suggestions appreciated.

[bryj22]

I have really seen a downfall in the Greek system where I go to school. There is no quality and its just about the partying.Fraternities are supposed to be service oriented as well, giving back the the school where they are given the right to have that organization. I love my school and want to see greek life go through the roof. I wanted to start an organization that is more than just the average greek organization. Yes, partying is an important part of the college experience but why can't you work hard and then play hard. Its all about keeping your responsibilites and being balanced. That is why I feel good about bringing Sig Ep back to Arkansas State, because of the balanced man program. I have been affected by hazing myself on a haze-free campus. It doesn't build brotherhood, it built resentment. I can't say enough how much I dislike the people who drove me through line ups and kidnapped me and made me drink way too much alcohol the night before a test. Its wrong, and the balance man to me looks like away of preserving quality and giving a a group of guys with similar ideals about virtue, dilligence, and brotherly love a place where you can always go and where people who have your back. I know this may be jumbled and incoherant but fraternity to me means family...and if the balanced man brings family and than i am happy to revive Sig Ep on the campus of ASU. We already have a group of 10 guys who see this difference that we need, I hope we are making the right decision.

[TopSider]

BMP sucks. End of story. I have witnessed the true harm this does and this is why we were one of the few chapters to RETURN to traditional after BMP(and this was nationals pulled us). You have no strong ties to your pledge class. There is no reason to commit. Its basically like a club you join, pay money and show up to meetings for. Since there is nothing to go through, there is no reason to stay loyal and dedicated to the frat. I went through hazing and all and I am a loyal, die hard SigEp, however, our reputation around the country sucks b/c of BMP we just let anyone and everyone in and we dont weed these guys out during pledgship. For instane, I met a group od SigEp's traveling through about a year ago, there were 6 of them, 3 were gay. I mean, seriously, is this what my fraternity is becoming across the country? Minorities, Gays, Low class white trash? It sickens me, and I am proud to be a Traditional Chapter and by the grace of God its in the South.

[sfebop]

Hey Bros,
I want to start off by saying I'm from a traditional chapter. I went to conclave last summer and CLA's this fall (Pittsburgh). A lot of the guys at my chapter HATE and I mean HATE the Balanced Man Program, and I'll admit before conclave I was in full agreement. But the truth is every chapter is going to be different regardless. I met BM guys at both Conclave and CLA's that could hang longer then I could, and had great personalities. The problem seems to be that there are a lot of chapters that don't really care who they let in, which can be both a good and bad thing. If a irresponsible chapter lets in irresponsible brothers, well, they loose their charter. However, if BM chapters let in guys that are only doing it for their resume and "Fuck It, I didn't have to pledge" (it's in quotations because some at Conclave actually said that to me); they get rewarded for having high numbers.

From a personal standpoint though, I really like being a pledging chapter; here’s why. Over the 8 weeks that I pledged I got really close with my pledge brothers, we got to know each other and constantly had to depend on one another. There wasn't a moment that we weren't together, not by force, but because after 2 weeks, we genuinely really liked each other. Now that we're in we are always functioning as "one" unit. To me, that is truly amazing, especially considering none of us knew each other beforehand. I can't see how this type of bonding can be re-created through the BMP. Really "hazing" is such a harsh word. I never once felt like I was "hazed", everything I did was done not because I liked the brothers, but rather because I loved my pledge brothers, and once we all shared a common trust, we realized how the guys already in felt. I don’t know, sounds a bit gay, whatever, that’s my only gripe with the BMP.

Fraternally.
Tom

[SigEpBrother2K8]

Originally Posted by sfebop

Hey Bros,
I want to start off by saying I'm from a traditional chapter. I went to conclave last summer and CLA's this fall (Pittsburgh). A lot of the guys at my chapter HATE and I mean HATE the Balanced Man Program, and I'll admit before conclave I was in full agreement. But the truth is every chapter is going to be different regardless. I met BM guys at both Conclave and CLA's that could hang longer then I could, and had great personalities. The problem seems to be that there are a lot of chapters that don't really care who they let in, which can be both a good and bad thing. If a irresponsible chapter lets in irresponsible brothers, well, they loose their charter. However, if BM chapters let in guys that are only doing it for their resume and "Fuck It, I didn't have to pledge" (it's in quotations because some at Conclave actually said that to me); they get rewarded for having high numbers.

From a personal standpoint though, I really like being a pledging chapter; here’s why. Over the 8 weeks that I pledged I got really close with my pledge brothers, we got to know each other and constantly had to depend on one another. There wasn't a moment that we weren't together, not by force, but because after 2 weeks, we genuinely really liked each other. Now that we're in we are always functioning as "one" unit. To me, that is truly amazing, especially considering none of us knew each other beforehand. I can't see how this type of bonding can be re-created through the BMP. Really "hazing" is such a harsh word. I never once felt like I was "hazed", everything I did was done not because I liked the brothers, but rather because I loved my pledge brothers, and once we all shared a common trust, we realized how the guys already in felt. I don’t know, sounds a bit gay, whatever, that’s my only gripe with the BMP.

Fraternally.
Tom

Hey Brother Tom,

I'm from NV Alpha and we're a BM chapter. I have to disagree with you on both points you just made, reason being that the BMP is kind of like an ongoing pledging program. When done correctly it provides all the positives of pledging without the negatives such as hazing, etc. (You might have been OK with it, as I probably would have been as well, but hazing is hazing and the public/law doesn't look at it kindly. Neither does nationals.)
Also, instead of pledging for 8 weeks and your 100% in, you have to earn your way through the rites or passage (alongside the brothers from your class and under the guidance of the older brothers, which is extremely bonding, no homo.). This is a very long process, sometimes lasting years. Over this time the BMP has you do personally beneficial things to prove yourself, e.g. community service, written tests on chapter and national history, etc. Not sure if traditional chapters are that way but isn't proving yourself to the fraternity the definition of pledging?
As far as letting in guys that only want in for something to put on a resume, you will find that the BMP will weed out those guys just as well as pledging because the BMP requires constant input of time and energy to remain in the chapter, again I feel I must add, when done correctly.
A lot of guys have problems with the BMP because of the way that some chapters run the program. However, these chapters probably weren't doing it correctly. When ran well and as it was meant to be, the program is a great way to educate new members, bond brothers, weed out non-SigEps and is one of the biggest reasons SigEp is the leader among fraternities nationwide. It's what sets us apart from other fraternities and looks great to the public. Other fraternities are beginning to model themselves on our example with the BMP and copying is the greatest compliment. Plus nationals will love your chapter for it .
Case and point, when done correctly the BMP offers all the benefits of pledging without the negatives that might or might not be present but are associated with a pledge-based fraternity. Thanks Animal House .

In Brotherly Love,
Brother Nate Janning, NV Alpha